Saturday, May 19, 2012

NorCal Sections Results

Central Coast Section (CCS)

Redwood Empire (NCS)
Tri-Valley (NCS)
Tri-Valley Videos
Class A (NCS)
Class A Pictures
Bayshore (NCS)
800m. video from Bayshore (Boys)
1600m. video from Bayshore (Boys)

Northern Section Newspaper Article (NS)

More will be posted as I find them.  Any surprises today?  Best performance(s)?

87 comments:

Anonymous said...

61-00.25 for Esparza in shot put at Tri-Valley. Thats got to be a top 5 state mark.

Anonymous said...

Geez... looks like Amador's Boys Team will be taking an army to MOCs

Anonymous said...

LETS GET THIS THREAD POPPIN WITH SMACK TALKING! most impressive area?

Anonymous said...

Tri Valley was most impressive with distances
Bayshore had the sprints though

Anonymous said...

it's a shame holmgren took a tumble at 200m to go and was in 3rd at the time... surely would have qualified

races videos for Tri-Valley below

http://granadamatadors.org/2012/05/19/track-ncs-tri-valley-5-19-12/

Anonymous said...

No offense but the CCS girls 3200 was pretty weak this year. After a blazing year for girls XC and an awesome final last year I thought the girls distances was going to be crazy fast. Where is Croshaw, Lira, Vazquez, Schreck, Eclhardt and Gregory?

Those girls were in the final last year or were top xc runners in the fall... Where did they all go?

When half of the stars are missing it is no wonder it was so slow.


And some thoughts on the meet:
* there was a softball game and kids soccer game going on in the warm up area. This should not happen at a CCS playoff.
* timing system malfunctioned more than once. Can we not have a back up system? You don't see this happen at Stanford or Arcadia... Let's get it together. How you can advance a team with no time is against the rules. They should have rerun that heat. The heat winner can move on but that was it. I would be curious how this is justified. The rules are very clear, you can't use some and not others.
* I say 5-10 runners run over the line in nearly every race. I saw one top ranked runner cut in early before the last cone on the double waterfall. With the awful calls the last few years we again need to show consistency. Is it a DQ or is it not? The turn judge was right there watching. Personally I would not want to make that DQ either, but then don't do it any time.

Anonymous said...

I agree with the last post. The last bullet point alone is reason enough to move to San Jose CC. Also with 9 lanes put 9 into finals!

Anonymous said...

Looked Like some Injuries in Croshaw injured her Foot I hear!heard Eckhardt Injured but also quit with several girls on there distance Crew! Not to sure of the others! The 3200m was the Hottest part of the day 90 plus and No wind! Next I Like SJCC but it would also be hot there and No Shade Period, at least youget that at Gilroy! Both Tracks have 9 Lanes!

Anonymous said...

The 800 & 1600 Bayshore videos are marked "private." Any way to fix that?

Albert Caruana said...

Sorry about that. I was able to view them last night but the settings must have been changed this morning.

Andrew said...

arghhh no 3200 video for Tri Valley!

NCSfanboy said...

San Ramon Valley is about to have the greatest exhibition 4x8 in the history of MOC...

Anonymous said...

Can someone explain to me how in the Girls 4x100 it went like this on the results sheet:
#1: St. Francis (no time due to malfunction)
#2: Santa Theresa (no time due to malfunction)
#3: Mt. View 49.59
#4: Palo Alto 49.84

And yet it shows that the Palo Alto girls team qualified and Mountain view didn't? How is that possible?

There are only supposed 8 teams that qualify, and Mt. View got 9th and Palo Alto got 10th. Is this a mistake and Palo Alto shouldn't have a "q" next to their name OR are they taking 9 teams due to the time malfunction...and if they are, why wouldn't the 9th team be Mt. View who got a faster time than Palo Alto, and the 9th place?

Please explain?

Albert Caruana said...

Good questions. Anybody?

Anonymous said...

the videos you put up for the bayshore don't seem to work. Am I the only one having these troubles?

Albert Caruana said...

Those videos were changed to private settings.

Anonymous said...

The results listed on the CIF CCS webpage only has 8 teams. Mountain View and Palo Alto do not have a "q."

The fact is this is a direct violation of the rules. The NT should NOT advance or the heat needs to be rerun as stated earlier.

Could someone in the know please give some information here. You cannot make up rules and let more than 8 teams in (except for a tie).

After the DQ last year for contact when there was none this is just another botched call by the officials. Steve Filios should be fired as meet director as this meet has once again screwed up.

Mistakes happen, that is understood. But to make up rules and not make St. Francis (his ulma matter) rerun as the rules clearly state that is a direct conflict of interest.

Both teams with the NT should be DQ'd, bottom line. My guess is they will not be seeded in lanes 1 and 9 either. This is a bogus decision and someone needs to answer for it.

hank said...

I just sent Mark McConnell (the timer) an email about why Paly has a "q" and Mt View doesn't (my guess is that since he had to force the two NT teams in manually that he forgot to edit out the "q" from Paly before sending me the results to post but that he did edit out the "q" for what he sent to CCS (I don't like PDF results so Mark always creates an HTML version for me to post so we coaches can "play" with the results more easily). He's timing a road race today so the answer might be later in the evening, when I get an answer, I will REPLY to this thread.

hank

Anonymous said...

Hank, please ask why the heat was not rerun and a team with no time is allowed to advance on "time."

In a sport where times make or break you I can't believe this is allowed.

hank said...

As I suspected, the "q" next to Palo Alto's time was a typo. It has been removed and re-posted.

hank

hank said...

^ Mark would not be the person to ask that question (he's just the timer), that should be sent to Steve Filios and his email can be found on the CCS website.

hank

Anonymous said...

Just more proof Steve Filios is self serving egomaniac who needs to be fired. Idiotic comments on "elite" CCS qualifying, the only section representative that opposes state CBEDS (despite it being ok for basketball) and now blantently not following the rules so St. Francis doesn't have to rerun their heat! (But 110 hurdles do!?!)

Anyone else have a problem with this?

Anonymous said...

the 800 and the 1600 from bayshore is from bishop odowd, what cant we look at the videos BOD?

Albert Caruana said...

Before we personally attack someone, lets get all the facts first. I would also like to point out that Steve Filios is not the meet referee so such a decision would not be made by him.

Albert Caruana said...

Before we personally attack someone, lets get all the facts first. I would also like to point out that Steve Filios is not the meet referee so such a decision would not be made by him.

Anonymous said...

Changing the direction of this thread a bit: I agree with the original comment on this post about Esparza's shot put. Definitely the most impressive performance at Tri-Valley.

Coach Small said...

Re: CCS 4 x 100

Time to calm down, there is no conspiracy here. The first two places in heat two did not get a time recorded. Third place in heat 2 did, which was the 9th fastest time.

I have no knowledge as to why the heat was not rerun but using some basic reasoning skills my guess is it is because if 3rd place in heat two is 9th, that makes the top two places in the top 8. I might also guess if there was no times for anyone in that heat it very well might have been rerun. I would also hold off on seeding comments until they are out. My guess is with no times they will be seeded in the outside lanes accordingly, which in reality is a disadvantage to St. Francis (who has a very good team by the way!).

Re: Girls 3200

I cannot speak for others but after a solid cross country season Morgan was really looking forward to track this spring. She just turned 17 in December so she is still young and growing. She has a competitive spirit and tried to run through a tight IT band while getting therapy but after running 5:20's and 11:40's it was not getting better so we pulled her out for the rest of the season. She worked in the pool and ran in our league meet after 6 weeks of no running.

She will be running in college so we did what we felt was best for her. She is feeling better and will be back running this summer to prepare for college.

That's just her story...

Anonymous said...

Why are the bayshore videos private?

Anonymous said...

Agreed with the above Holmgren comment. Its a shame.

Anonymous said...

esparza is currently ranked 5th in the state for Shot Put. another impressive performance was Praise Adesida of Alhambra in the discus, 140-09 is the 6th best mark in the state

Doug Griffith said...

Agreed about Holmgren. Really tough break. The somewhat slow pace created more of logjam of runners at the 600M mark than usual. However, like a the great competitor he is, he bounced back with a solid sub 50 leg in the 4x400M race. He split a 48.6 earlier this season so look for him to make a really big contribution to SRV's 4x400 team this weekend at the MOC. Go Wolves!

Anonymous said...

Another view – Decided the Tri-valley 800 M race controversy warranted watching and my take-away is that a poorly timed cut-in resulted in the tripping of the runner who fell. The fallout also took out 3 other runners who thankfully managed to avoid spiking the fallen runner but the diversion appears to have cost them the opportunity to race at NCS. Not my league, don’t know the 3 runners, but I appreciate their sportsmanship. Way to go boys – I hope things work out for you.

Anonymous said...

If they were Nike runners they'd all advance to the finals!

Remember the Woman's 800 meter fall with 150 to go at 2008 Olympic Trials and they pushed them all through?

Jack Barnes said...

Theres a question here?. Time to get real NCS - push them through!

John said...

From the video, looks like Holmgren got boxed with 200 to go, tried to move out into lane 2 and got his foot clipped from behind by McKinnon, Doesn't look like anyone cut him off as Molineux already had clear position in first in lane 1 with Schmierer challenging for the lead on his shoulder.

The question is did the SRV or Dublin coaches protest to the officials as their runners were impacted by the fall?

Anonymous said...

I wish it was that easy! Looking at so many angles of this situation my brain hurts (small pain). If anyone knows of a case like this that was resolved in favor of the athletes moving on I would love to hear about it.

Tim Hunter
SRVHS

John said...

According to National HS Federation rules, you have 30 minutes after results are posted to file a formal protest. I'm not sure anything can be done after that.

Anonymous said...

Nothing can be done about getting tangled up or a fall, the result stands. Sucks but it is the way it is.

Anonymous said...

The 3200 times at bay shore arent that hot

Albert Caruana said...

I was at Gilroy HS for the CCS meet and it was pretty hot during the 3200m. races. I am sure most runners in both sections just tried to advance with as little effort as possible. The big times will hopefully come on Friday for CCS and Saturday for NCS.

Unknown said...

As explained to me both at the meet and in conversation with Coach Tim Hunter of San Ramon Valley, we cannot protest a "non-call" - there was no disqualification to protest or appeal. Trust me, I have spoken with plenty of people in how to proceed with this and we are still trying to make something happen.

Chris Williams
Dublin

Anonymous said...

the 800 race at bayshore was really exciting, its a shame we cant see it. does bod really have the videos? and if so why arent they public for everyone to see?...weird

Anonymous said...

No offense but you can't make up rules. This is what kills me about track and field. We have guidelines, follow them. It sucks, I know but I have seen so many bad calls, protests filed (and rightfully so) only to be upheld. You have no way of knowing who would have qualified, for all we know he could have collapsed before the finish (I've seen it too many times before). You can't play the coulda, woulda, shoulda card here.

It sucks, but that's the way it is.

Coach P said...

i'm sure its a strategical thing... I wouldn't want the entire North Coast section watching my teams race strategy... It'd be nice if they were set to public after Meet of Champions though.

Andrew said...

the 800 at Bay Shore was entertaining, but it was so race specific.

basically, it looked like Kane led to control the pace, Hamilton on his shoulder and the other two BOD runners slightly behind. All to box Ratto in. Ratto feel to second to last at 350 or so and then made his move at 400. Hamilton was the only to go with him.

I don't think this happens again at NCS because 4 BOD won't be in the final (most likely...).

I hope I didn't give away any secrets.

800 Runner said...

A runner making a move with 400 to go in an 800 is hardly giving away secrets. Seems like everyone puts a surge in there and / or 600. Not the best strategic places to make your move but the hs-ers love those marks.

Anonymous said...

Wait so the BOD runners did run to box in ratto? it looked like kane ran to pace and then moved out of hamiltons way so hamilton could move while ratto was boxed by the rest of the bod runners.

Anonymous said...

we don't "know" Holmgren would have qualified but here's why he probably would have

-he got up and finished fast
-he's run 1:54.xx his last 4 races (including league qualifying)
-he was in position to easily qualify

Anonymous said...

And that is why you run the race. You just never know... Tough break but nothing should be done here, tough life lessons that some time bad things happen. Just check out last years CCS finals with 50 meters to go.

Much bigger races ahead. Gotta suck it up and move on.

Anonymous said...

Here's an interesting article from today's Wall Street Journal that discusses Jim Ryun's fall during the '72 Munich Olympics 1500m prelim. http://on.wsj.com/JEQDjs Kind of timely, given what's going on with the incident that occurred last Saturday.

Track, distance in particular, involves contact. 99% is inadvertent, as appears to be the case last Saturday. Unless you want to call the competence or integrity of the umpire into question, it has to be assumed that any contact was incidental and unintentional.

The video on Granada's page would be inadmissible in an appeal, as NFHS rules state "Video replay or television monitoring equipment, other than the official finish line equipment approved by the games committee prior to the start of competition, shall not be used to make decisions related to the meet"

The outcome of this situation will set precedent. Don't have a runner in this race, but I'm staying tuned.

Anonymous said...

Just heard that the four boys involved in Saturday's 800 dustup are running a rematch to try and meet the at-large standard to qualify for MOC. Is it just me, or does this reek of unfairness? Who the hell agreed to let this happen? Some real CYO-level BS going on here...

Anonymous said...

{Not dissing CYO, by the way-just pointing out that in CYO, participation is emphasized over performance...the 'everyone wins' mindset}

Anonymous said...

theres a reason this meet was held last saturday. to move on, you're supposed to race at that meet and either make top 7 or the at-large standard. It's unfortunate that some of the runners fell, but to make the argument that because you tripped during your race you should have another chance, isn't fair to the others who already ran the race and qualified. you never know what's going to happen in a race. such as the time when Jim Ryun fell during the Olympic prelims in the 1500. Yes he was upset, but he didn't get another chance because he didn't meet the standard crossing the finish line

Anonymous said...

The lesson here is that if you don't do well at NCS Tri-Valley because someone trips or was tripped or whatever, you can get a free do-over a few days later when it's cooler, there are less people on the track, the pressure's off, and you're just running against a clock. Just like at league finals, MOC, and state. Oh, wait.

Anonymous said...

The 800M race is contact race especially when there is a tight pack of runners. The Tri-Valley race was tightly bunched because the runners in that heat chose to be cautious with no one trying to truly win that heat. Holmgren tried to move into the #2 lane when he didn't have much room to make the move. It was his decision to make that move at that time and that spot on the turn. So, he made the decision and paid the consequences for his poor decision, and he now gets rewarded with an opportunity to get a re-do on his race.

We all know Holmgren's a 1:54 runner and is one of the top 800M runners in the section. However, this sets a very dangerous precedent for future kids who felt they may have been bumped from contention in a race. We all understand that sometimes there are extenuating circumstances which warrant an exception being made, but this is not one of them. What about kids who didn't qualify because it was too hot? Or, last year because it was too cold?

Holmgren made the decision to make a move that didn't work out for him, and now he gets another shot? Really bad decision by the NCS!

Anonymous said...

Rematch? Ridiculous. the only person you can blame in a situation like that is yourself, because it could have been avoided.
they still got up and finished the race, and they didn't make the standard. now they get another chance. Albert, your thoughts?

NCSfanboy said...

How did they do...?

Anonymous said...

I heard one of the runners at Bayshore had a cold. Can he get a do over also? Really, How do you get a do over with no foul being called?

Anonymous said...

From the NCS web site: IMPORTANT INFORMATION: All entries will be closed as of midnight Sunday following the NCS/Les Schwab Tires
Area/Class A Championship meets.This would open up a whole new can of worms if anyone else advances.

Anonymous said...

El G tripped in the 96 Olympics with one lap to go. He was was the favorite. Took him 8 more years to get that Gold.

I'd say that race should be the example. It sucks, it really really does. But some times in life you fall and have to race another day. No such thing as a redo.

Here is the thing. If they allow this they would need to open it up to everyone or you start getting into some liability issues.


Shame on the coaches for even allowing this. They should have used this as a lesson in life instead the lesson is if something goes wrong whine long enough and you'll get your way. If you want to prevent something like this from happening then make an auto time you can hit any time and advance.

I am discussed by the coaches, officials, and NCS. Why even have rules? At this point they have no right to enforce any rules at all.


To whoever allowed and supports this you are weak and should be ashamed.

NCSfanboy said...

Just watched the video of the fall. Sure holmgren most likely would have qualified (although that doesn't mean he should get to re-race) but the 3 guys in the back; Brian Hardy SRV, Carl Wilke SRV, and Justin Pryor DHS, did NOT look like they were in position to qualify. To give not only Holmgren but Hardy, Wilke, and Pryor another shot at it is just despicable. I can se how someone MIGHT make the case for Holmgren (personally, I don't think he should get another go), but that is ONLY because he has run 1:54 consistently in the second have of the season. The other three have barely cracked into the 1:57s, and even 1:56 (what Hardy ran at EBALs) isn't fast enough to suddenly be declared a shoe-in for qualification to MOC. I hope that these 4 runners do not go through, not out of spite, but because it would be blatantly unfair to a whole host of runners who didn't qualify for similar reasons. I'm sorry SRV, I know you had high hopes for these guys and it's unfortunate that none of them qualified but thats just what it is: They did NOT qualify. Leave it be or else you'll most likely have bigger problems than a couple less runners at MOC (namely, a large amount of spite felt towards your runners who are getting a second chance when there shouldn't be any) If this goes through, I would recommend a petition or something goes around to veto the decision.

Anonymous said...

In return to all these comments just to update, all 4 boys who ran in the rerace qualified for MOC. Personally I think it is absurd someone should be given this redo for circumstances that an inherent part of running this race

NCSfanboy said...

That is absolutely ridiculous. There is no way the NCS board will let them compete, right?? The heats are out already! The deadline for all entries was last week! They had no right to run a re-do in the first place because there wasn't a call to dispute! This can NOT be allowed. Albert, is there anyone you can talk to about this? Can SOMEONE say SOMETHING to ANYONE?!?!?

Anonymous said...

if they did a rerun it must have been approved by NCS in the first place, so if they qualified by time they must be in the meet.

Anonymous said...

Who are these coaches that allowed their athletes to run and how do they justify it.

Amazing how some people justify things like this. I really want to hear from these coaches.

Who timed this event or has record this really occurred?

Anonymous said...

A full clock was used to time with official timing by computer administered by the coaches with an NCS rep present as far as I know.

Anonymous said...

bad decision. and unfair. Albert your opinion please

Albert Caruana said...

I did not see the appeal so I can't really say anything about this situation.

It's just par for the course during the championship part of the season. You can't blame the coaches who are out there fighting for their athletes. Now the 800 qualifiers to the state meet will be decided on the track which is the idea behind the sport anyway.

Best of luck to all the competitors this weekend.

Jack S. said...

How did they justify only 4 runners having a run off? No doubt it affected everyone in the race behind the fall as well.

I wonder if this was slower runners if the same run off would be allowed. This reeks.

No offense but I do blame the coaches. They are fighting for their athletes but teaching the wrong lesson. It's like the parent suing because their kid got caught cheating. These coaches are a bad moral example, cheaters, cry babies and should be fired.


Jack Smith

Coach Ozzie said...

Some clarification. The four athletes who ran off in the re-race represented all of the athletes who did not qualify out of that heat. Their prior credentials had nothing to do with their admittance into the re-race.

Anonymous said...

Doesn't matter. Kids lose shoes, fall, all the time. No rerace is given. Still no justification from these coaches.

Yeah the coulda but the didn't. They ran a poor strategic race. That is part of it.

Can someone who knows please provide what rule allowed the athletes to rerun? Or was this just a back ally handshake.

Anonymous said...

If anyone falls tomorrow or Saturday, do they get a free pass to State? Then it can be settled on the track there, unless they fall at State. Then State can be settled in a small, private 'meet' several days later...

NCS opened a whopping can of worms with this one.

Coach Ozzie said...

Whether people agree or not is entirely up to them. As a coach with an athlete in the event, I am choosing to hold onto my opinion at this time. My above comment is only meant to clarify a fact that may not have been clear. Good luck today, but maybe not quite as good as the Dons.

John said...

Interesting. Has there ever been a run-off in the past for NCS regional meets or any other section? You see athletes advanced to the next round in the same meet (i.e. NCAAs, US Champs, Olympics, etc) when involved in similar situations but if it's the final then the affected athletes are straight out of luck (i.e. Morgan Uceny in the 1500 at last year's World Champs). Is Tri-Valley considered a heat for MOC or a separate meet?

On a side note and not knowing CIF rules, if I was the Dublin coach (who seems like a good guy), I would have filed a protest that Holmgren should have been disqualified in the 800. Since his fall interfered with the three other runners, this seemed the best way to have the three boys advanced to the next round without having a run-off.

Anonymous said...

So, the NCS Tri-Valley bulletin says that "A jury of appeals will serve as the final board of appeals. The jury will be the meet director of each league meet." I'm pretty sure the NCS commish made the call on this, not the board of appeals. At the end of the bulletin, it says "If run-offs are necessary they will be conducted at the conclusion the Area Championship unless the competitors’ schools are in close proximity. In that case, the run-off will be at a neutral site on Tuesday following the meet." Didn't the run-off happen on Wednesday?
I guess NCS views all athletes as equal-just some more equal than others.

Coach Tim said...

John said...

Interesting. Has there ever been a run-off in the past for NCS regional meets or any other section? You see athletes advanced to the next round in the same meet (i.e. NCAAs, US Champs, Olympics, etc) when involved in similar situations but if it's the final then the affected athletes are straight out of luck (i.e. Morgan Uceny in the 1500 at last year's World Champs). Is Tri-Valley considered a heat for MOC or a separate meet?


In 1998, I was the last qualifier from CCS-North to CCS Semi-finals in the 400m, but scratched out of the next round due to a travel commitment. The two finishers after me had the same official time (hand-timed), and came out of different heats. I was told they had a run-off at the beginning of the meet to see who got to run in the semis later that day, but of course I wasn't there to see it.

NCSfanboy said...

^^... So...? Cool story but it doesn't give merit to the decision that was made in this situation. I actually agree with 8:35. If ANY sort of protest was going to be filed it should have been for an interference by Holmgren on the other 3 runners. A copy of the full "report" should be made public immediately, assuming the coaches even bothered to file one. I would absolutely love to hear the reasoning behind this. It's completely ridiculous on so many levels for all the reasons that 25+ people have been giving in this thread. The head coaches involved should be ashamed of themselves.

Albert Caruana said...

You can't fault the coaches who are doing what they can for their athletes.

Anonymous said...

@NCS Fanboy:The coaches weren't involved-it was the runners parents who went to NCS.

Anonymous said...

Like I said, I do fault them. They are teaching that rules don't apply to them. So yes, they are at fault.

And if this is the parents I am even more upset. I am so tired of parents complaining and calling the shots. It happens at school and now in track. I'd hate to be these kids teachers. God forsake you if they don't get an A.

I fault the coaches for breaking the rules, and now I fault these cry baby parents. I'd only allow a runoff if there was a DQ. Since their wasn't too bad.


This is what's wrong with society today. Complain long and loud enough until you get your way. I really wonder what would happen if this happened at a lower income school in Oakland or Newark. Well I have an idea and it wouldnt be a runoff.

NCSfanboy said...

Frustration understood. But Albert is right about keeping the personal attacks to a minimum. Lets just see what happens today.

Skeptic of it All said...

I do not see a personal attack here, just that someone blames the coaches for teaching values they do not agree with.

Others might say they are teaching you fight to the end, no matter what, even if it is against the rules.

Both would be right and neither are attacks but rather opinions. I think being able to state your opinion and discuss is the best for the sport and this situation.

I have always viewed forums like these as distance runners out on the run talking, disagreeing, cheering one on, maybe even a little smack talk. It is all in good competitive spirit and part of the community of cross country and track and field.

If you don't like it, speak up or just let it go.

Anonymous said...

Well, Hardy got through on time, second to last to qualify, while Wilke, Pryor, and Holmgren didn't make the cut. Holmgren ran 2:02.xx, (26 of 27) probably due in no small part to running the rematch day before yesterday. In theory, only one runner was knocked out of tomorrow's finals by the NCS Tri-Valley re-do debacle. Of course, if I was that one runner, I'd be pissed.

Anonymous said...

unfortunately jonathan degroot of bishop o'dowd was that one runner.
and now his seasons over. but its okay, because hardy deserved the qualifying place more, right?

NCSfanboy said...

Well technically hardy did run faster.... So in this case yes. The point isn't who deserves it more but more whether or not Hardy should have been there in the first place. but he was and he ran better than Degroot today.

Anonymous said...

so degroots going to state?

Anonymous said...

ha