Tuesday, February 28, 2012

Kevin Bishop gives some recruiting advice after 7th place in 2 mile at Brooks PR Invitational 2012

Courtesy of flotrack.org and Kevin Liao:

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17 comments:

Anonymous said...

Bishop, Wascura, Davis all running with a private coach during track season. Does anyone else see that having a private coach is an unfair advantage over those who can't afford it. My guess is that Andrew Hill and Milpitas don't have private coaches, imagine how good their runners would be if they could train with these guys.

Its an unfair advantage and needs to stop, at least in season. When is CCS going to step in to stop this, it really hurts the poorer communities.

Kevin Liao said...

If there's a will, there's a way. These guys could link up with faster local runners if coaches are willing to sacrifice the effort.

I know that I was often alone on workouts in high school and could have contacted college runners to train with (while not violating NCAA rules, of course) but didn't do so because it was a hassle.

If these kids are willing to go out of their way twice a week to meet for workouts twice a week then all the better for them for making the sacrifice.

Anonymous said...

"My guess is that Andrew Hill and Milpitas don't have private coaches, imagine how good their runners would be if they could train with these guys."

You are making the assumption that this kind of training arrangement is the best for all athletes. As a counter example, look at all the studs that go to Oregon and are never heard from again. Shouldn't they have gotten much better there with such a strong training group?

Different athletes respond to different environments. Maybe the athlete would get "too competitive" and hammer themselves to injury. Maybe the athlete thrives psychologically being the "top dog" in workouts.

Perhaps the situation that other athletes are in is precisely why they are succeeding.

Anonymous said...

Hey, all those kids in Mountain View and Los Gatos need to do something. The east side gets 8 spots to CCS making it almost impossible to even get there. I'd say that's not fair too.

Two wrongs make a right?

Anonymous said...

"Its an unfair advantage and needs to stop..."

[sarcasm/on] I agree. It's also unfair that some kids are physiologically superior when it comes to running. Why should they get all the glory, just because they're blessed. And really, it's unfair to kids who don't win to have to see the front-runners finish the race ahead of them and get medals... [sarcasm/off]

Please, dude. Do you really want to make it a class issue? Maybe the parents in the 'poorer communities' are living in the 'poorer communities' because of choices they made earlier in life. Maybe they don't feel like supporting their kids in running-it happens in affluent communities, too.

And, pray tell, how does it 'hurt' the poorer communities? By these guys using every legal advantage to get faster, does it somehow make the other kids slower? No. In fact, an argument can be made that the kids with private coaching are probably making the non-privately-coached kids faster, but certainly not slower.

Stow the everybody-should-win drivel. If you want a wall full of white participant ribbons, have at it. Some of us look better in blue.

S

Anonymous said...

"Maybe the parents in the 'poorer communities' are living in the 'poorer communities' because of choices they made earlier in life. Maybe they don't feel like supporting their kids in running-it happens in affluent communities, too."

Did you seriously say this? Or were you still being sarcastic? Because that is an a-hole thing to say.

To think that you are assuming kids at Milpitas or some other low-income families / schools are poor because of their parents life choices and thus deserve to be at a disadvantage is preposterous. You need to look at yourself in the mirror brother.

As for the poor thing, I think there is no disadvantage. You know who is at a disadvantage and is poorer than anyone in the Bay Area? Kenyans. And they are doing just fine. And to think that a private coach is some how superior is absurd. The advantage here is the best training together. They can do it on the weekends, after school or whatever you can't stop them from running together.

Anonymous said...

The question here has nothing to do with whether or not parents have the income to support a private coach but rather is their an advantage in having one.

Does having a private coach give you an advantage?

In my opinion, no.

The advantage is all in training in a group will make you better. This is true at every level. The mental aspect of not being #1 is not applicable for track.

I don't know personally but I have always thought that Woodside, Monta Vista and Valley Christian have very good distance coaches. They continuously have good runners that improve year after year. I am assuming these three choose to run for a private coach to run together not for superior coaching.

Is there an advantage? Yes. Is it unfair? No more unfair than Calrmont, Mountain View, Aptos, SLV or any other great team that has good athletes together.

Anonymous said...

This is a stupid conversation.

How is it any different than getting a private tutor for school when you need it? If someone wants to get better and feels that a private course, tutor, trainer, school, nanny, therapist, cook, driver, gym, etc, etc, will help them in life, what does it matter to anyone else? People should be able to do what they want to make their situation better. If someone wants to spend their money on additional help in life, so what.

There is always a way to pay for additional help if that is your priority (the athlete could get a part time job to pay for it). Yes, for some it is less of a stress on their budget. But that is life.

If you truly think it is about money, then why are we letting the private schools compete against the public schools? Why are we letting the richer public schools compete against the poorer public schools?

Money has nothing to do with it. If you want it bad enough you will train hard and do what is best for your situation. And if that means getting a private trainer, then do it. Anyone can find a way to afford it.

The real advantage is that some athletes are willing to work harder than others to be their best, with or without a private trainer.

Albert Caruana said...

Not a stupid conversation at all. The public vs. private school discussion has been going on for quite some time in CCS and I am sure other sections.

I understand the point of view of both sides so as long as we stay away from name calling...carry on.

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately money does have a lot to do with it. Look at the schools that are successful year in and year out. It is those that have "more." This is true academically and athletically. This is why private schools exist, parent will pay for more.

As for the coaching,who cares. If the kids and parents are caught up in some sales pitch for a private coach / club (this is for other sports as well) let them waste their money.

By the way this is not supplemental tutoring, I'd be surprised if these stars even practice one day with their high school team. They show up in their uniform on race day only not a part of the team. Its sad really, they are missing out on a great part of high school.

Personally my son runs for his team and may not have as much as some of these more affluent schools but that money is going in a college fund. Running is running.

Kevin said...

It isn't about money. We don't pay Willie a cent. He coaches us simply because we each reached out to him and asked nicely. Anyone can do this. There are five people in the training group (Myself, Chris, Sean, Danielle Katz, and Reagan Dyer). None of us have ever paid Willie anything for coaching us (trust me, we've tried to pay him). I guess the closest thing we do is buy our shoes (at full retail price) from his store, which many area high school runners do anyway. This isn't about money.

Side note: Anyone else having issues getting on to the Lynbrook site? I can't seem to find the main page anymore, it always shoots me back to ESPNHS...

Albert Caruana said...

Kevin, clear your cache from your web browser and you should be able to access the lynbrook website.

Kevin said...

awesome, that worked! thanks

Anonymous said...

Kevin, I don't want you to take this the wrong way, I'm not being accusatory here but sincerely wondering why you would want another coach? It seems like Monta Vista has good coaches who care. I am curious why top athletes like Sturges, Katz, Davis, etc. would seek private coaching when there are already top coaches at the school. In Sturges case the coach won a State Championship and got her a sub 5. Why go else where? I know you cant answer for her but what was your thought process here?

Kevin said...

That's a totally fair question, I'm happy to answer.
First off, Allison does train primarily with her high school coach, unless I misunderstood her.
Anyway, my situation was this: I trained with Coach Payne at MV for my freshman and sophomore years, and had as much success as I could expect. I would have been fully comfortable staying with him throughout my career, but unfortunately he was obligated to step down as coach when his wife went into remission for cancer (she's doing well now, we love you Teresa!). At that point, I realized there was a possibility of some coaching instability at MV during a critical period in my development. I knew that if I wanted to continue to develop as a runner and possibly pursue a college scholarship, I had to have consistency during the crucial year and a half that would follow. This led me to find Willie, through my great friend Mike Dudley, whose running camp I do in the summer. True to my guesswork, we had two coaches in the next two semesters, and the second one happened to be the current coach, Kirk Flatow. I love Flatow and what he's doing with the MV program, and I can honestly say that if he had been my coach since freshman year, I would never have gone to Willie. Indeed, the first requirement of Willie's program is a healthy, open relationship between athlete and school coach. All of us in the group fully embrace this.
I totally agree that Coach Flatow and his staff are the highest caliber of coaches anywhere in the section. We have a Beijing Olympian, a four-time Olympic Trials qualifier in the Marathon, and an ex-Oregon club runner on our staff. For me, it was simply a matter of continuing with a program that was working.

Rob Collins said...

Kevin, you ran great this past weekend, it was great watching you personally, I wished Anna could have had the racing experience but you saw her! You just explained greatly why you train with Willie a few days a week and I know personally Kirk is completely comfortable on your decision because he said the same thing! Now go out and do what you do Best! Run let's see a low 8:50 at Arcadia! You can do it! Oh and remember what I told you about that little gap you had! See you around!

Anonymous said...

I do Have one Final Question! How are you running at Meets when you do Not Have your actual High School coach There who is being paid by the school. And you are at Meets with a private or volunteer coach! When CIF Rules state You need to have your High school coach that is paid, Certified, back ground checked and everything else that goes with coaching from the School which uniform you are wearing?