Saturday, June 16, 2012

Central Coast Section Cross Country Divisions-2012

Coming up...2012 CCS XC rankings.

For now, here are the divisions:

Who are the top teams (boys and girls) in CCS in 2012?  Who are the top individuals?  Who are the top incoming freshmen?  Let's hear it.


Anonymous said...

Um really need to ask? Bellarmine for boys and Aptos for girls.

While someone may come on strong these two are by far and away #1.

Anonymous said...

I would Throw Willow Glenn in there and also SLV Girls!

I will take my wife's last name said...

Nah... What does WG have that Bell does have 10 of.

SLV is a good top 3 team but Aptos returns the top team from last year, got new freshman out in track and will have yet another stud freshman. To top it off they will no doubt find some new talent! They will not only crush CCS they could very well win state and go to NXN this year. They are that good!

SV4life said...

Vanessa F-ing Fraser runs 16:59 at NB Nationals! Wow!!!!

Anonymous said...

Theres about 4 Girls that can Run under 17:00 on the Track at 8:50 at Night, that is about 10:50 3200m split! Great Time but!

Anonymous said...

Fraser is afraid to run against her competion in the SCCAL! She Hasn't Raced Hiltz in 3 years on the track!Dodged every Race!

Anonymous said...

The top boys team in ccs is for sure carlmont due the fact that they are bringing back 5 under 16:00 at crystal and 2 more under 16:25 or so. Also, one of those guys not under 16 ran 9:46. Most of them do not run track for the carlmont team so their times are not seen. The bellarmine team will be weak compared to their recent teams as they only bring back a few strong runners.

Anonymous said...

You saw Bell's 3200 times this spring right? With 300 kids the rebuild every year and this one is no different. The fact these kids don't run track will catch up with them. The club vs. school drama that continues is bad karma.

And btw, CCS is not at crystal and neither is state. State is the biggest race of the year, not CCS. Carlmont does not have such a good track record there to they.

Bell will be the top team at State, the biggest race of the year. And probably CCS too.

The Animal said...

Hiltz could run the 5k or 3200 any time. One might say that Hiltz is dodging her.

Or maybe, just maybe they focus on different events.

If 4 girls can rub sub 17 in the CCS then do it. There is a Los Gatos all comer August 9.

It's a little harder than you make it out to be. And just because your a good miler doesn't mean it carries over to the 5k. I mean your talking about the state xc champ here

CS1608 said...

Something tells me we won't see a Hiltz, Frasser, Robinson, and Maxwell battleling it out at LG this summer. I'm looking forward to another epic race at the Crystal invite. Maybe sub 17:00 there, and I'd think the Toro records r definitely in Jepordy. Estefanos, and Vasques will be tough to beat in Div 1. WG is not what they used to be now that they are Div 2. They're losing there top 2. They're not even the Best Div 2 school in BVAL(Leland), and Westmont may even be stronger.
That's an awful lot of Bell smack, for a team that loses 6 of 9, and got ROLLED as CCS last year. Did their top returner even qualify for CCS trials in track?
Oh yes I did!
Sorry Chuck. You're still a stud
No disrespect to Frasser. 16:59 is awesome. She's the state Champ, but she's the third best runner in her league. I'd even go so far as to say #4and#5 in league r closer to her than she is to Maxwell.
This maybe shaping up to be the best year for girls. Overall I go 1.Hiltz, 2.Maxwell 4.Robinson/Frasser 6. Goo/Estrada. That's quite a group. Too bad we can't have a combined CCS al la 84/85. That's the only group that migh be better. Chapman, Mcandless, Mendoza, Chamberlain, Clark!

GirlUnoItsTrue said...

Not smack, truth. Who was the top team at state, the biggest race of the season? The top finisher was.... Bellarmine. Carlmont is good no doubt. But they were better last year and still ended up #2. They will once again.

Fraiser might be #3 in league but she beat Maxwell at State last year. So again she's not dodging she's running her own race.

Also.. Robinson beat them all at FL right? So I'm guessing you put more emphasis on dual meets an league finals than State and Nationals?

Lastly sub17 won't happen. Those kids won't run Crystal this year.

Anonymous said...

Last year, Carlmont had a group of young inexperienced guys running and they still hit the top 10. Now, after another year of training together, they are stronger than ever. And not to short bellarmine because they did have good track times, but so did carlmont, they just were not shown. They had 8 guys run around 9:50 in the 3200, 6 of who are returning. I don't think the bells have that many close to that. With their experience building, they will be tough to beat.

Anonymous said...

top individual boy is Yohannes no doubt

Anonymous said...

Carlmont also returns 6 of their 7 from that team and is only loosing their 4 or 5 runner from their state team.

Anonymous said...

You mean the Carlmont state team that finished behind Bellarmine at the biggest race in the xc season?

They could beat them at CCS maybe. But Bell is #1 when it counts the most.

Can you please post those track results? Even when Carlmont did run track I felt the under performed on the track. Anyone know why they run xc but not track? Why not just go club 100%

Anonymous said...

What are team and individual predictions for girls ccs d2? With SI leaving d2 it'll be an interesting competition for the teams

Anonymous said...

GirlUnoltsTrue - really? seriously? - anyone can have one good race and it might as well be at State. And I say Good Job! They are all exceptional runners. But Fraser is like 1/21 in CCS and invitational races not just duel and league. Where is the consistency? More importantly - let the kids race - it will be resolved on the course. And no, LG 5000K in early XC season isn't happening...

Anonymous said...

Robinson outpaced CCS'ers at a regional qualifier and chose not to proceed to Nationals. We will never know if she could have outpaced them twice. It is good to have choices but Soccer was more important. Good for her. Regionals followed by a dance with the big dogs is more about strategy and endurance than placement at the Regionals.

Anonymous said...

yes I mean the carlmont team that placed behind bellarmine in LAST years state finals. This year it will be different. They have nearly all of them returning and the bells lose most of their power from their xc team from 2011. Im not sure why they run xc for carlmont and Ill try to post the results.

Anonymous said...

For boys I'm going to say Bellarmine, but they will really have a hard time beating Carlmont and San Beninto this year-both of those teams are looking really strong. However, Bellarmine's varsity spots are completely up for grabs because of the depth of the whole team-a lot of really good returners. But that goes for Carlmont too-they have some really good returners as well. Should be an exciting season.

Anonymous said...

Not just last years team... If I remember right Carlmont has only beat Bell once at state despite a great showing at State. So does Carlmont peak for CCS or do the bonk at state.

It is clear Bell peaks for State, but some teams and coaches may choose to put more emphasis on winning CCS and not really caring how they do at State. Not saying they do that but it's might not be a big deal. Though I do agree that State placing determines who is the better team.

NCSfanboy said...

Disagreed with that^ I feel that one performance on one day (State) is not nearly enough information to determine who is the better team. It would be determined over who beat who consistently throughout the season. State is important and we want norCal runners to peak at state but sometimes some teams will just have a bad race and they'll end up losing by a couple points to a team who they've been beating consistently throughout the season. I think, as long as its the same 7 runners each time, the comparison for "who's better" is determined by consistency.

Anonymous said...

"It is clear Bell peaks for State,"

Actually, last year at CCS Bellarmine had a couple of kids sick and a few others nursing tweaky injuries.

People place way too much importance on "peaking" for another race as an excuse for poor performance.

Anonymous said...

You are the same guys who put all the emphasis at the section and state meets as "the only races that matter" but now it's all consistency. Make up your minds!

By the consistency argument you should be able to hit the team time for xc and the auto time for track at any invite throughout the year. But you guys say that if they can't do it at the end of the year, then they aren't good enough and don't deserve to run.

So what is it? Consistency start to finish or who runs best in the most important meets? And if Bell beat Carlmont injured and sick that isn't helping your argument.

Gunn Rulz said...

CCS is more important until you can really compete at the State Meet against Southern Section schools. I know that Bellarmine beats Carlmont at State each year but you are talking about teams finishing around 9th and 10th every year. When the Bellarmine and Carlmont teams start getting on the podium then you can use the State Meet as your judge to who had the better season. Good luck to both teams and all CCS runners this XC season.

Anonymous said...

So if you can't medal the trails are more important than the Olympics?

Nope. State is most important and is what counts. Top 10 in the state of CA is competing.

Anonymous said...

Bellarmine and Carlmont are going to have a competition for the top. While Carlmont has a strong team returning this year, but Bellarmine has more competition for guys vying for the varsity spots.

Anonymous said...

So Carlmont and Bell. Got it.

Who's 3-15? Will Los Gatos top Hollister again this year? Any rising stars?

Girls Aptos, SLV...

Who's 3-15? Will Mtn View, Carlmont, SI, Mitty just be a repeat of last year? Who's on the rise?

Anonymous said...

Who cares about ccs....

Anonymous said...

Considering you are trolling a CCS thread I'd say the people who live from San Francisco to Carmel to King City.

Anonymous said...

Haha. You from NCS? I'd say about twice as many people as NCS based on the number of comments

Andrew said...

I'm from NCS and I certainly care about CCS because I am a fan of cross country, running, racing, and track. And CCS has some of the best athletes in the state for those sports. But I don't really know much about CCS.

But this back and forth of Carlmont and Bellarmine is really going nowhere. I agree with what Gunn Rulz posted: CCS should be the measurement until at least one of the teams is good enough to podium at state. Basing the whole evaluation of a team on one meet is not smart either. Teams could have different dynamics and that could succeed at state, but not in a dual meet or vice versa. If one team beats another in league AND section, but loses at state, who is the better team? It favors one team 2-1, but that one loss came at "the most important meet."

But keep debating by all means as long as its clean. Because its certainly entertaining.

Anonymous said...

What about the first invite? Or a dual?

These teams only race each other CCS and State. I'd say it's 1-1. Both are important no?

Respectfully for most the goal is to just get to State and run your best there. Even if you can't be a top 3 team.

But to others it might be to win the section. Fair enough. Two programs, two different philosophies (rfu coach vs. bell coach philosophies, no one knows what the new coach feels). But that's the way it is and thus the debate continues.

But who cares? Yeah not many I'll give you that but that is the sport really. Not many care. But but we do so that's a start.

Anonymous said...

To reply to some of the previous comments based on the supposed Bellarmine-Carlmont season tie 1-1, both teams did race earlier in the season at the Stanford Invite, and although they ran in different races, Bellarmine ended up with a faster team average and overall team time. Just as a common mark before the CCS/State meets.

Also, I agree with the previous comment that for many teams, the goal is to just get to the state meet and be able to compete at the largest meet in the state besides Mt. SAC. And using a different sport analogy near the end of the NBA playoffs, if a team did better at the division semifinals than a team that was ousted in the first round, they would deem to be a better success, no? Theoretically, the competition gets harder the deeper you get into the playoff season, and thus competing at a higher level later in the season is harder.

Anonymous said...

Ok, 2-1 Bell.

So Carlmont people what is it, consistency? The biggest race of the year (State)? Or you pick the race you do win so you can say your better?!?

Anonymous said...

bellarmine was a better team last year is what almost every comment has said. Nothing is to prove that they are going to be better than carlmont this year.

hank said...

OK, let's settle this once and for all - we'll let the computer decide who was a better team last year using both end-of-year peaking races and consistency throughout the year. Here's what I did...

I took any race that Carlmont or Bellarmine ran that was 2.7mi or longer.
I used only the Top 7 team placings for each of the schools.
All times are converted, using XCStats conversion tool, to Crystal Springs course.
All teams are scored against all other CCS teams (hence why the Raw Score is so high)
I then took the Top 5 placings using only Carlmont/Bellarmine scores.

And the results...

1 Carlmont-Leagues 259 1:18:17.0 18 - 42 - 55 - 60 - 84 [125-139]
2 BELLARMINE COLLEGE P -Lowell 282 1:18:06.0 9 - 16 - 30 - 82 - 145 [149-226]
3 BELLARMINE PREP -Ebird 491 1:19:03.0 19 - 24 - 96 - 166 - 186 [216-256]
4 Carlmont -CSI 503 1:19:20.0 64 - 72 - 78 - 105 - 184 [207-254]
5 Bellarmine-MSAC 643 1:19:27.0 5 - 59 - 97 - 193 - 289 [294-295]
6 CARLMONT-PAL#2 665 1:19:46.0 41 - 73 - 108 - 164 - 279 [302-351]
7 CCS BELLARMINE-Stanford 782 1:20:12.6 36 - 126 - 189 - 198 - 233 [259-399]
8 CARLMONT -Ebird 978 1:20:51.0 113 - 163 - 199 - 217 - 286 [334-488]
9 Carlmont-MSAC 1170 1:21:20.0 123 - 222 - 235 - 274 - 316 [329-373]
10 BELLARMINE-Leagues 1277 1:21:17.0 25 - 167 - 319 - 356 - 410 [411-516]
11 CCS CARLMONT-Stanford 1470 1:22:05.6 194 - 213 - 255 - 386 - 422 [469-496]
12 BELLARMINE-WCAL-1 1631 1:22:25.0 208 - 284 - 285 - 313 - 541 [600-616]
13 BELLARMINE-WCAL#2 2622 1:24:15.0 372 - 524 - 525 - 581 - 620 [621-670]
14 Carlmont -DLS 4257 1:26:37.0 607 - 697 - 806 - 1027 - 1120 [1129-1206]

Bellarmine 27 2 - 3 - 5 - 7 - 10
Carlmont 28 1 - 4 - 6 - 8 - 9


Anonymous said...

No CCS score for Carlmont?

hank said...

Ouch! My bad, no CCS score for Bells either AND no State scores for either. I forgot that I stopped tracking after League since I figured CCS would determine who the Top team in CCS was and I wouldn't need to keep this table going (looks like I was wrong). Give me 30 minutes and I'll try to add in CCS & State times as well. If I can't do in 30, I'll let someone else tackle this.


hank said...

Done. Results end up the same, just a different way of getting the same # of points (See below):


1 Carlmont - CCS 1:18:05.0
2 BELLARMINE COLLEGE P -Lowell 1:18:06.0
3 Carlmont-Leagues 1:18:17.0
4 BELLARMINE PREP -Ebird 1:19:03.0
5 Bellarmine - CCS 1:19.18.0
6 Carlmont -CSI 1:19:20.0
7 Bellarmine-MSAC 1:19:27.0
8 CARLMONT-PAL#2 1:19:46.0
9 BELLARMINE-Stanford 1:20:12.6
10 CARLMONT -Ebird 1:20:51.0
11 Carlmont-MSAC 1:21:20.0
12 BELLARMINE-Leagues 1:21:17.0
13 CARLMONT-Stanford 1:22:05.6
14 Bellarmine - State 1:22.15.0
15 BELLARMINE-WCAL-1 1:22:25.0
16 Carlmont - State 1:23:09.1

Bellarmine 27 2 - 4 - 5 - 7 - 9
Carlmont 28 1 - 3 - 6 - 8 - 10

Now We're Talking said...

Looks like it's time for a Bellarmine/Carlmont dual meet! With all the comments on this message board you may actually get a few spectators who will be very interested in this match-up.

Anonymous said...

I would go watch that. It would need to be like a 2.2 mile epic course though the redwoods or something!

Nice stats but you killed the debate. Though I think it is close enough to rage on. Personally I put more value on the Crystal / Toro / Woodward Park times as those are courses run every year and don't change.

Anonymous said...

Last year was all about Crystal Springs and the league times ran there, whereas this year is all about Toro, so look for Earlybird to be a good early season preview.

LG Elk said...

Where's those rankings?

My thoughts

Aptos- #1last year and even better this year
SLV- Good but not as good.
Carlmont- because if they're not top three they complain.
Mitty- good track results including 11:03 by Haar
SI- they'll get another freshman superstar. #2 in D3.

Rising star- Homestead, recruiting (I mean club team) paying off.
Biggest flop- Mtn View, still no coach...

Carlmont- kings of CCS finals, will bonk at State... Again.
Bellarmine- top team at State but has trouble at CCS
Los Gatos- harmatz has reloaded his team.
Hollister- them Boys been baylin' some hay.
SLV- young country boys growing up

Rising Star-Saratoga
Biggest Flop- WCAL. For all their complaining on here you'd think they'd be better. But there not.

Anonymous said...

^ kinda a jerk but kinda right...

Anonymous said...

What were some of the Bellarmine track times for returners?

Anonymous said...

i will eat my shoe if bellarmine wins ccs

Anonymous said...

bellarmine had four guys under 10 at 9:29, 9:30, 9:52, 9:54, and more guys around ten 10:01, 10:07, 10:07, 10:14

Anonymous said...

They better be good recruiting the way they do.

Anonymous said...

Are the Mt View girls going to win CCS again this year?

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