Friday, November 10, 2017

NorCal League Championship Results

Central Coast Section Results:
http://www.rtspt.com/events/cif/2017Meets/ccsxc17/

Sac-Joaquin Section
Section Finals: http://timerhub.com/get_web_index.php?page=redcaptiming.com/2017/sjsxc/
Sub-Section Meet: http://timerhub.com/get_web_index.php?page=redcaptiming.com/2017/sjsxcsubs/

Central Coast Section
PAL: http://lynbrooksports.prepcaltrack.com/ATHLETICS/XC/2017/pal_res.htm
WBAL: http://lynbrooksports.prepcaltrack.com/ATHLETICS/XC/2017/17_SCVAL/SCVAL_XC_Meets.htm
MTAL: http://lynbrooksports.prepcaltrack.com/ATHLETICS/XC/2017/mtal_res.htm
SCCAL: http://lynbrooksports.prepcaltrack.com/ATHLETICS/XC/2017/sccalres.pdf
WCAL: http://rtspt.com/events/cif/2017Meets/wcal3/
BVAL: http://rtspt.com/events/cif/2017Meets/bvalxc/
SCVAL EC Finals: http://lynbrooksports.prepcaltrack.com/ATHLETICS/XC/2017/ec_res.htm
SCVAL DAL Finals: http://lynbrooksports.prepcaltrack.com/ATHLETICS/XC/2017/dal_res.htm

North Coast Section
NBL Results: http://diablotiming.com/results/2017-11-10/res/
MVAL Results: https://www.athletic.net/CrossCountry/Results/Meet.aspx?Meet=143447#937
MCAL Results: http://www.rtspt.com/events/cif/2017Meets/mcalxc/
BCL East Results: http://www.rtspt.com/events/cif/2017Meets/bcleastxc/ NEW
WACC Results: http://atwresults.com/atwupload/20171104/
DAL Results: http://www.highspeedtiming.com/dalcon/
WACC Results: http://atwresults.com/atwupload/20171104/
BCL West: http://www.rtspt.com/events/cif/2017Meets/bclwestxc17/
Redwood Empire Meets (11/1) http://www.redwoodempirerunning.com/111-meets/
BVAL League Championship: https://www.athletic.net/CrossCountry/Results/Meet.aspx?Meet=132577
TCAL Results: http://www.saintmaryschs.org/athletics/test-iframe-page/
EBAL Live Results: http://diablotiming.com/results/2017-11-04/

Northern Section
NAL Championship: https://www.athletic.net/CrossCountry/Results/Meet.aspx?Meet=132110#660

Oakland Section
League Finals: https://www.athletic.net/CrossCountry/Results/Meet.aspx?Meet=136821#1974

San Francisco Section

156 comments:

Anonymous said...

15:24 by WG sophomore Dal Canto is pretty good, right?

Anonymous said...

Strong run by Estrella at BVAL. He will be top 3 at CCS. Willow Glen Girls looked great and may challenge Presentation. Boys had a strong race but Saint Francis is in a league of their own.

Anonymous said...

Sign of the apocalypse? Los Gatos & Mountain View boys don’t qualify for CCS!

Anonymous said...

Condition were unusually near-perfect today and yesterday. almost to perfect! Hopefull can stay perfect for WVal Finals tomorow. Good luck to belermine, Saint francis, and Junipero Serra schools!

Will Meike break the 15 minute barier? I think he can . They're have been a few people who done it before, I think Meike is one of them. Good Luck meike and the bells:)

Who will win team races? I know belermine is good and junipero serra is also is good, but i think the saint Francis program is too much underate by most people here.

Overall, good luck kids and lets have another clasic race tomorow and hopefull by CCS to.

Anonymous said...

Where can one find the SCVAL results? The link just sends me to a default page from Lynbrook...

Anonymous said...

@9:39: No results...who DID qualify???????

Anonymous said...

The results are posted on the links provided. If you had visited those pages before the results were posted, your computer may have cached the older versions without the results. Hitting the browser refresh should bring them up (at least that's what worked for me).

Hank said...

They're there. Just refresh your browser and scroll down (SCVAL results).

Hank

Anonymous said...

I miss the trash talk at legue final time. Where are the WCAL guys? Everything is so quiet.

Anonymous said...

Why only good luck to Bell, SF & Serra? And MBR has already run 14:45 at Crystal Springs this year. So he can go fit or run to win. He got his time.

I am a bit surprised that some traditionally great teams didn’t make it. It Saint Francis and Bellarmine taking all the local talent from these teams?

Anonymous said...

Where is Henry saul? I hope he isn't injured

Anonymous said...

No trash talk because you know exactly what is going to happen. SF, Bell, Mitty/Riordan/SHC for third. SI/Serra for 6th. VC last.

Albert Caruana said...

Henry was/is sick.

Anonymous said...

@11:39 that is a big switch from pre-season predictions when everyone had Bell over SF. I think a few injuries, some mystery absences, and a few surprises (mostly SF's 3 and 4) has flipped the script. We shall see later today.

Anonymous said...

What about SCCAL at Pinto Lake today?

Albert Caruana said...

I think several injuries and the emergence of several runners changed the pendulum in the Bellarmine/St. Francis rivalry.

SCCAL results will be posted as soon as I get them.

Anonymous said...

@11:11am If you knew the backgrounds of the SF top 7 you would be surprised that they are ranked as high in the state and nation as they are. Three of their top four didn't run a step before getting to SF, one didn't run until his soph year. Only one of them had any kind of record going into high school. This is not a Great Oak story where local talent is drawn to a powerhouse program. The boys and their coach have built what they have from the ground up. I can't speak for Bell but they seem to get 2-3 good runners a year so I don't think they are singlehandedly responsible for depleting the other local teams you referenced.

Anonymous said...

Notice for SCVAL EC Boys that Los Altos edged Paly by 5 points, but Reed Foster did not run for Paly. Assume he was injured or sick? And in SCVAL DAL Girls, looks like Homestead reaffirms itself as top team in CCS Div 1.

Anonymous said...

WCAL results up anywhere?

Anonymous said...

@1:34pm
It's arrogant to say that St Francis brought in just ordinary kids, and because of superior coaching, they're now better than everyone else!!! Please. The reality is, SF and Bellarmine can pull kids from the entire Bay Area region. And yes, standout athletes do migrate towards SF and Bellarmine, whether you want to believe that or not. We're not trying to take away the accomplishments of St. Francis, but please don't tell us that they're just better than everyone because of their coaching and hard work. There are many great coaches in CCS and very hard working kids outside of SF and Bell.

Ron Ernst said...

Congratulations to MBR (Bells) for the individual title and the Saint Francis Boys for the team title. Holy cow, looks like they are now #3 all-time for Crystal Springs. Another amazing WCAL, phenomenal results.

Anonymous said...

@5:01 name more than one kid on the current SF roster, which just put up the #3 Crystal time EVER, that had a record before showing up in Mt. View. You can’t do it, because it isn’t a thing. They were athletes who have worked hard with great coaching, and now own the CCS records at Crystal and Woodward and the overall Toro team times. Great year to be a Lancer fan!

Anonymous said...

@ 5:01 pm
new flash. it doesn't matter how fast kids are in middle school. the chance they improve is just as likely as the chance they burn out. the reason @1:34 said sf has fantastic coaching which also goes for bell is because its true. if you look at the depth of these teams it becomes clear that these coaches reach more than just the top guy or 2 or 3 on their team and that is why they are competitive year in and year out. there are an incredible number of guys who didnt run in middle school that these coaches have turned into great runners. Besides, a distance running culture doesnt just come from a bunch of runners spontaneously deciding they want to go to a school, it comes from 10+ years of grooming a program to meet the desired outcome. Therefore the reason runners would want to attend a school with a good running program is because THE COACHES CREATED IT. McCrystle and the Pompeis have clearly accomplished this, so kudos to them. If you are mad that talented middle school runners are choosing these schools, then you are mad at the simple fact that their coaches are top notch and inspire kids to reach their potential. Bang.

- A previous WCAL varsity runner

Anonymous said...

SCCAL Girls Aptos 32 - Santa Cruz 33

Hank said...

If anyone got a team pic of the SF Boys after running at Crystal today, please send to me at HANKLAWTRACK at gmail... so I can link it to their team time when I update the Crystal records. Thanks

hank

Anonymous said...

@7:09Yep - and SF and Bellarmine benefit from being able to bring in anyone they want regardless of where they live. Don’t kid yourself - if a coach like Santamaria has access to the whole Bay Area, he’d dominate CCS, but he coaches at a public school, not an open private school. Private schools should all be D1.

Anonymous said...

This team won the freshman league title 4 years ago. Add in a few top recruits and you get a winning varsity team. School culture and outstanding coaching, buy in & commitment is why they are this good. But to keep it real they are a talented group. While they weren’t 16 min freshman they were all in the 17:30. That’s a talented group to start with as freshman. Talent + the formula above (hard work, coaching, culture, buy in) is why they are 14:46-15:40 guys now.

Anonymous said...

No one saw it coming but Kumar almost caught Meika at the end. I’m calling it right now, Kumar wins state and has a better time than nationally ranked Beaudoin-Rousseau.

Anonymous said...

Shyam Kumar went beast mode against Meika. If he does this well again do you guys think that he could win d2 state?

Anonymous said...

Woah woah woah! Today was surpise not from the fast time but from the near-perfect weather. The condition today were almost to perfect. Maybe to good to be true? The sun was no where to be seen, but the moon was. This showed the cold tempertures and lack of wind, as , well as a visible course. Times today, were therefore even, greater than exepted. WVal NEVER fails to to good with super fast time , almost to fast to be true.

Meike did in fact broke the 15 minute barier! Also newcomer Kumar from White Castle turns heads as also breaking the Mysterius 15 minute barier. Seing the clock under 15 minutes was quit a site to see, as nobody has ever don it in course history(atlest for what i now). Congrats to saint Francis and junipero serra schools, as well as a strong finish by the belermine boys squad. On the girl side, good run by Valey christian , prensentations, homestead, and archbishop riorden schools. fast times, on the girls racing,

I look forward to CCS meet where hopeful belermine can take down the toro park Course Record of 79:56. With meike on the team, anything, is possible. Division 2 ccs should be a tough battle with schools saint francis , junipero serra, AND willow glen who has zack walker AND marcus del canto.

Speaking of , CCS, does anyone now if the taco trucks will be returning? At the earlybirds race, I rember the tacos trucks:) they dont ONLY have Tacos, also chimiganga , burrito, case ideas, tortase, and even Nachos! i dont know, about you guys but, I would sure like a tacos truck at the ccs Meets...

Anonymous said...

@ 9:16. W.G. May not pull from the entire Bay Area, but they do benefit from favorable circumstances that allow them to pull from a much larger area. Having a Junior High that works for you and maintains a XC program geared toward developing young runners, and preparing them for high school doesn’t hurt.

Anonymous said...

Hank, where can we find your Crystal records?

Albert Caruana said...

http://lynbrooksports.prepcaltrack.com/ATHLETICS/XC/crystlat.htm

Dan said...

@11:31 I am down for a taco truck. I love chimigangas

Anonymous said...

@11:31 Do you really think Bellarmine could break the St. Francis course record at Toro? St. Francis is nationally ranked at 13 in the country, while Bellarmine isn’t even on there. I agree that Meika is a good runner, but it is apparent that Shyam Kumar is also a strong runner who is at the same speed. Even if Meika runs faster than Kumar which is a slight possibility, St. Francis still has their top 7 faster than Bells 2nd runner. Bellarmine has no chance against the second ranked team in the Division 2. Not an opinion, just pure facts

Anonymous said...

The way SF looked yesterday, I think their new Toro course record is already in danger at CCS. The only question is how serious will they be about peaking for CCS vs. saving it all for Dublin at state? I am sure they want to beat WG at CCS but they now have a legitimate chance to win the D2 state title and trying to peak for both races is risky business.

Anonymous said...

the Belermine boys squad will, winning the CCS title this season and will winning the All time cours records at THE toro park of (79:56).

Now for , the Divion 2 races boys, who will win? The sain Francis BOys looked real good yesterday at the WVals. The Wilow glens also looked good maybe, even better? Almsot To good to be true. Sain Francis boys may have kumar from white castle but , when face agains ateam with THE zack Walker and THE, marcus del santos , time can NOT go wrong... Coach santamarise nows realy well how to peek the boys for , a Ccs Title! Now who wil have a faste time wilow glens, or the belermine? I think so , as they shows the TRUE potential.

Did anyone planing to see the WBAL's tomorow? With such near-perfect forecast condition for set to be tomorow, we WILL see fast, times, quit possibly times to good to be true. but consider the near-perfect condition , you mus remembr to ignore the times, as they are to fast to be actual fitnes. Robby Mirada should take the varsity titel, leaving the race for secend, but the questin is if the misterius fiften minut barier WILL be broken? I hav seen the first 2 of (all time) to brake the barier (kumar of WC, belermine of beaudoin). I think i can see it again IF i attending the meet. Howeve, I will NOT attednig the race as have, other plans on a Friday night;)


Congragulation to junipero serra schools, on the sucesful WVal race yesterday (number four Altime)


Good luck to presentations, homestead, james Lick, Alisal, AND los gatos schools at the ccs meet and congragulation on a CCs qualifation.

Hank said...

:-)

Anonymous said...

TCAL league meet results http://www.saintmaryschs.org/athletics/test-iframe-page/

Anonymous said...

MTAL Results - No Stout? Anyone know if she's still running?

Anonymous said...

Question: what is the lowest point total a team can get and still lose a XC meet?

Coach Tim said...

@6:26 - I think the answer is 28. The sum of the first ten places is 55, so the closest division between two teams would be 27-28: 1-4-6-7-9 vs. 2-3-5-8-10 gets you there.

Someone doing a deeper analysis might find a lower total, but there's a starting point for you.

Aptos/Santa Cruz girls is the lowest I think I've ever seen in a League Championship meet. Very impressive on both sides.

Anonymous said...

35: Team A 1,2,3,4=10+25=35; Team B 5,6,7,8,9=35 and they win on 6th man if he finishes in front of Team A 6th. 34 points or less wins every time!

Anonymous said...

@ Coach Tim, I have seen Saint Franis with my own eyes get a score of 20! So I dont think 28 is the the lowest. They're have been scores even lower then 20. Its just vary rare

Albert Caruana said...

I believe the answer is 29. In a dual meet, a team can get the top 3 spots while the other team takes the next 7 and still lose 28 to 29. It can happen in a small league with the same finishes involving two teams.

Not 100% sure of above but that is my best guess.

Ron Ernst said...

The answer is 28, the math Coach Tim did above is solid. If you score 27 or less in a XC meet you cannot be beat. Clearly it would be great to score 15, but a score of 27 gets you the win. All kinds of combinations to can lead to a score of 27.

Anonymous said...

thank you ron

Anonymous said...

Team A...1,3,6,8,9=27
Team B...2,4,5,7,10=28

Anonymous said...

Wow, Carlmont destroyed their league championships yesterday, and it seems like they were missing their third runner. Does anyone think Carlmont has a chance at qualifying for state? They've been looking pretty strong recently.

Albert Caruana said...

Only top two teams make it out of Division I so it will be tough for Carlmont. They have stepped up big time at CCS so you never know.

Anonymous said...

Bellarmine should win and Palo Alto will likely take the second spot if Henry Saul returns. Carlmont and Los Altos could also challenge for a spot.

Anonymous said...

I expected the times at SJS subsections at Frogtown to be a little faster, since they went with the alternate course (rain). Those two nasty hills were gone and they just did the flat loop again. Maybe saving up for sections?

Also not sure if the rain put teams off, but some big XC squads like Bella Vista didn't even field Frosh or Soph girls teams?!?

Anonymous said...

@1:17 AM - the question is: what is the lowest score a team can score, and still LOSE. 28 is the correct answer. If a team scores 20, they WIN.

Anonymous said...

I think it's going to be very very close between Bellarmine, Paly, Carlmont, and Los Altos. I honestly can't wait to watch that race. If the comments are true and Henry Saul/ Reed Foster have been sick that may make an opening for Los Altos or Carlmont to take that second spot. You also never know. I personally think that even Bellarmine isn't 100% safe in this race (even with Meika). Scales has run very inconsistently this past season and while I think he is probably going to do very well, we could see Owen Mackenzie, Henry Saul, or Ryan Wilson beating him. The rest of Bellarmine is only a little bit ahead of Paly and Carlmont's top 5 so we could very easily see quite the upset. Although I don't think this will happen, it is possible. Nonetheless, good luck to all teams and DO NOT miss that D1 race.

Anonymous said...

Often by the end of the season, a program's strength is truly shown. Good coaches will typically know how to better peak their athletes for the important meets.

For this reason, I will pick Bellarmine and Palo Alto as the heavy favorites with their far superior coaching (especially the legendary McCrystle).

Anonymous said...

@4:12 You have a point but it seems Carlmont was only missing their 5th runner, at least based off of the Lynbrook rankings. Palo Alto was missing their number 1 and 3 at their league meet, so look for them to step up big at CCS.

I also checked the CCS entries list- all 3 of these runners are competing.

Anonymous said...

@10:10 I hope you are right because I hate to see anyone miss CCS due to illness but the listing does not mean they are running. Coaches list their top 7 regardless. Substitutions can happen right up to race time.

Nils O said...

I'm pleased to see SJND's girls team doing so well, and Emily Perez be rated (in another link) as top in Div V. Go Pilots!

Anonymous said...

MVAL results: https://www.athletic.net/CrossCountry/Results/Meet.aspx?Meet=143447#937. The course was apparently 2.95 miles, not a 5K.

Dan said...

I attended the SJS Meet at Willow Hills and here are my takes. Olivia O'Keeffe looked incredibly comfortable in going out early and dominating the D1 race with some strong competition including the Denner sisters. Jesuit Sophomore Matt Strangio took off and dominated the D1 Boy's race and looked like he had a lot left in the tank. Collin Ullrich of Liberty Ranch gapped the field and ran the fasted time of the day 15:58 Weather was cool and breezy most the day, but the Boys D1 race was run in steady rain and wind. I am feeling that the course ran slow since they recently put a layer of bark all over the back loop, but just my opinion. In the team races, I saw a lot of solid performances, but SJS teams are going to need to have incredible races to compete with the much larger Southern California teams in two weeks. My gut feeling is that both Strangio and Ullrich will be right around 15 flat with good conditions, which would be more likely to win the D4 race, though either or both of them could qualify NXN. On the girls side, I feel that Vista Del Lago probably has the best chance of making some noise in the team race and that O'Keeffe and the Denner's all have a strong chance of ending up on the podium.

Anonymous said...

What course was the MVAL League meet run on? The times seem very fast.

Anonymous said...

So Hispanic, poor public school kid beats the jaugernaught Saint Francis boys and runs faster than MBR for the fastest time of the day, yet not one post or mention. All year I’ve heard nothing but SF & Bell here. All meet the announcer went on and on about not just the boys but the girls as well. Kind of sad you have be at a name brand private school to get any recognition.

Albert Caruana said...

I think everyone is still recovering from the meet but thank you for pointing out Jorge Estrella's effort yesterday. A terrific victory over some very good runners. Fastest time of the day as well?

Anonymous said...

Individuals rarely get as much attention as teams at championship events. Jorge was amazing as were Kumar and MBR, regardless of their ethnicity. Now, let’s get back to recounting how impressive SF was yesterday. The combined boys score of 34 is 102 better than the next team, Bell. Is that the biggest victory in history? Also, their new course record is 50 seconds better than their September record, which was 27 seconds better than previous. Taking over a minute out of the all time record at Toro is amazing. Yet, they still go into the state meet as an underdog to Dublin. Should that be re-thought? Discuss.

Albert Caruana said...

Let's see what Dublin does at NCS and then we can certainly discuss.

Anonymous said...

I’m not sure why we need an announcer with commentary at all. At the track meets they are usually biased, and slant coverage to the kids they know or have coached, and miss others completely. Yesterday’s announcer is the Harker/former Stanford coach, and his wife was the longtime AD at Saint Francis. I don’t think there are open auditions for the position.

Albert Caruana said...

Scott Chisam and his partner (the name escapes me and I do apologize) did a great job describing the action that took place at the meet yesterday.

Not everybody at the meet is as well informed as anonymous on this site so having announcers there is a great addition to the meet.

Anonymous said...

I’m not sure what people think Scott should have said other than calling the race as it developed. His commentary adds a lot to the race, especially during the periods when the kids are out of sight. I think we all need to take a step back and put our hurt feelings aside, no matter how real or perceived, and remember that everyone who contributes does so without compensation (with few exceptions in CCS and timer). Many of the volunteers are local coaches who give selflessly to make the race the best it can be for the KIDS. Congrats and thank you to everyone for running a great sectional meet!

Anonymous said...

@8:48
No hurt feelings, just an observation. The same way that a seedlings meeting for HS football gets more publicity than the section championship. XC makes way more money than football at CCS and State (football actually costs money) but our sport gets the shaft. It’s also not surprising that Estrella ran the fastest time of the day yet gets overlooked. And if you don’t think race and economic status influences the amount of respect around here perhaps you should come stay in the 7 trees area for awhile and see what it’s like over here for real. The tuition you pay for private school is more than some make the entire year. These kids over come enormous odds to not just be athletes but good students. Yet you can’t praise this young man without helping more praise on Kumar (he was second by the way) and a Bay Area all-star team.

Albert Caruana said...

Not everybody is a keyboard warrior and just because Jorge may not have anyone singing his praises (except yourself of course) that doesn't mean he is not well respected by his peers and adults.

Anonymous said...

All the kids know and respect Jorge, and that’s really what counts. Nobody here can add or detract from a kid who ran 4:12 at state and just won CCS at Toro. Does anyone know if he is running in college and, if so, where? He has the times to go to a power 5 school.

Ron Ernst said...

Jorge Estrella is a solid young man. He showed great class yesterday when he immediately shook everyones hand and offered congratulatory hugs to all the podium finishers. Everyone respects Jorge and it was great to see him pick up the D2 title as well as the fastest time of the day. I am sure the athletes have never underestimated him. He was recommended from a poster that he should have been considered for top 10 last month. Some great talent is always going to be overlooked, it is the nature of the beast. One of the great stories on the day is the career improvement by Dylan Ellis @ Prospect High School who qualified for State by taking 8th in D3 with a time of 16:31.5. Check out his freshman times ( 23:32 at Earlybird for Toro) and you will be amazed. Those are the great stories and accomplishments to be cheered as well. Well done Jorge, Dylan and their coaches Jason and Kevin!!

Anonymous said...

I had to stop laughing at the “all star” comment before responding. It took some time because it is hilariously inaccurate and evidently intended to detract from the team’s accomplishments. Here is the truth about the group of “all stars” from SF: 2 of the starting 7 didn’t run one step as a freshman; 2 others didn’t run a step in competitive running until their freshman year; and only 1 of the 5 who ran as freshmen broke 17:30 at Crystal. Please, tell me again how this team was assembled from as a can’t miss group of all stars. LOL!

Anonymous said...

Colton ran 15:46 as a freshman. You forgot to mention that. Also, it is well known at St. Francis historically gets talent year after year. Whether they ran a step or not they get the best. That’s an avantage no one else gets. Thus the all-stars comment is valid. .

Anonymous said...

Can we talk more about the SJS Sections Meet? Some great racing there that seems to be lost in the constant CCS discussion. Great individual performances by Ullrich and O'Keefe, a crazy-close 3-way team battle in the rain for D1 Varsity boys, and just some quality racing on a tough course. Although the times may seem slow, remember that the Willow Hills course is really tough and made even tougher in muddy weather. Should be exciting to see what all Norcal teams can do at state!

Anonymous said...

In relation to his talent, Jorge has consistently been relatively unrecognized by the posters on this blog over the past four years. See this thread from back in 2014… http://www.crosscountryexpress.com/2014/12/norcal-cross-country-team-2014.html. Google his name and look at the history of posts. There’s a common pattern. Most of the time his name comes up, it is in the context of explaining that he has been, once again, overlooked.

This is significant because, when it comes to our little world of Northern California cross country, this blog composes a large part of the culture/conversation that take place around teams and athletes.

Racism and classism and are real things that affect many aspects of American life. It’s not unreasonable to speculate that race and class, at least in part, are an explanation.

It’s also reasonable to assume that people who frequent this blog are the parents and friends of the athletes that tend to get mentioned more. A few people come here to talk about the sport, but people mostly come here to talk about people they know and care about. There’s nothing wrong with this is as long as we can objectively step back and realize that.

What Jorge Estrella, and the Lancers and Dylan Ellis have in common is that they worked hard and overcame a variety of difficulties in order to be successful. This is what we all love to see. Congratulations to EVERYONE who dug deep and surprised themselves, (and maybe some others), and achieved something that was perhaps thought unlikely or impossible at some point.

Albert Caruana said...

I think one of the reasons that Jorge has been overlooked is that he doesn't race in many of the big invitationals. It's very hard to compare him to other runners when he is dominating his league meets against not much competition. Track has been a little different as he was noticed much easier in the spring.

Anonymous said...

We can certainly lift up a team or an individual without taking shots at others. I understand the impulse to go on the attack when we feel disrespected but we have to remember they are just kids doing a sport most of us would quit after the first long run. Great job to them. Let’s read more positive comments as our best get ready for state.

Albert Caruana said...

And a reminder that those same kids are not the ones making comments. Just sayin.

Anonymous said...

If you look at SF top 7, I find a 15:46, 17:30, 17:37, 17:59, 18:04 just for freshman times at Crystal. The one with no Crystal time ran 4:37 for 1600M as a freshman, and the other ran 16:51 as a sophomore at Stanford Invite. That doesn't even account for their #8 who ran 17:41 at Crystal as a freshman and would likely qualify to state in any division as an individual. Not to mention numerous others who were faster, but didn't make the cut this year. I count 3 others who have recently run sub 18 as freshman. This team is amazing and must train like no other, but make no doubt, they are definitely an all star team.

Anonymous said...

@1:35 Definitely racism and classism affect everything, but not all private schools are only for the stereotypical "elite" and "wealthy". Take Riordan for example: there's a sizable portion that is considered underrepresented minorities (African American, Hispanic, etc.), and when eighth graders apply they often see it as a backup school to SI and is often seen negatively, in both academics and athletics, by other private (and public) schools in the area. Also has a very questionable leadership in its administration. And most of their students aren't necessarily wealthy: around 60% of the school gets financial aid grants. Same goes with SHC but at a lesser extent. Kudos to Riordan from having gone from WCAL bottom feeder to State Meet Qualifiers basically overnight in the past couple years. Whoever their coach is has done a fantastic job.

Anonymous said...

I’ve been coaching at a public school for 18 years. NEVER have I had 5 freshman under 18 at Crystal. Let alone a 15, 16 and another who ran 4:37. I think that is the definition of a talented team. Yes hard work is at play. Yes great coaching. But let’s not pretend the bar didn’t start above everyone except maybe bellarmine.

Anonymous said...

I’m having a hard time following this conversation. Are we saying having good kids on a team is a good thing or a bad thing? Are we saying “all star” in a positive way or is it meant to diminish the team’s accomplishments? And fianally, when this team was getting hammered by another team in their league for the last 10-12 years, were they still getting these all stars, and was good or bad during that period or only now?

Signed, Confused in Mt. View.

Anonymous said...

to all of the parents on here that get kicks out of trash talking high schoolers who for the most part are all very humble, hardworking athletes that couldnt care less about your whiny comments because your negative hyper criticisms are backed by a cowardly anonymous identity: unless you have something positive to say, dont comment anything at all because albert didnt create this site to have you complain about how fast other kids are and how unfair is is that your kid doesnt work as hard as them, because yes, thats all it comes down to.
- every runner in ccs

Anonymous said...

Many on this board seem to forget three facts.
1. these are high school kids.
2. The coaches and volunteers (including announcers and those who host blogs) do so largely out of their love of the sport and caring for the kids. No one is getting rich on these things. And while, I am sure they want the best for their own teams and the kids they know, the aren't putting in the hours helping kids because the kids are 'privileged' or not.
3. this sport more than any I have seen gives kids such mutual respect for each other. Every kid knows just to finish some of these races is tough, not matter what place you finish. The kids show that in many races I have seen.

Congrats to Kaylah, Jason, Mari, Robert, Tevah, Nicholas, Naomi, Meika, Serena and Jorge on their wins.
Congrats to all the teams that won and those that are moving on to state.

Finally- special congrats to the Marina boys team and the Sacred Heart Cathedral Girls teams (and especially their coach). They were both so thrilled to qualify for states, it was fun to watch them. I don't know either team, but I almost got run over by the SHC coach yesterday as she was running to hug her team. That was really fun to watch.

Anonymous said...

Albert - Get real. To say that Jorge dominates his league meets against not great competition is ignorant. He races against Willow Glen at most league races. When he isn't racing WG he is racing against some very talented kids at Westmont, St. Teresa and other schools. MHAL had 3 of the top 21 teams in CCS yesterday, it is not a watered down league, granted, WCAL is stronger. It and WCAL are the only two leagues to have 2 individual boy champions. You seem to not realize they have talent as you rank WCAL kids based on league races. Additionally, you chose to keep your kid on the list because he raced well while having a difficult week of training, what did that have to do with a "big invitational"? Montgomery Hill has had plenty of great runners put down times. Jorge ran a fantastic time on the course, who cares if he won by 30 seconds. He clearly should have been on the list. It is fine to be biased toward your own kids but don't blame it on him not racing big invitationals, take ownership of the decision to exclude him.

These comments are not meant to take anything away from the young man who runs for you and won a CCS championship yesterday. He is a great talent as well and should be well congratulated.



Coach Tim said...

I've never seen Estrella race in XC, but I did notice him in track last spring. I LOVE the way he races. Exciting to see him win the championship and have the fastest time of the day. Does anyone happen to know his splits? I'm very interested to learn how he breaks down his XC races.

Coach Tim said...

Oh, and regarding the announcer - I think it's helpful to have commentary when the runners are out of sight - not everyone can do the back-and-forth running, especially up and down the stairs. And it's very hard to know something about every team, all day long. Scott Chisam has a considerable knowledge of CCS and recent history, so he can add a lot of relevant comments.

That said, at least a few of my athletes commented unfavorably about the volume of the speakers directly alongside the course. Not sure if that's something to be considered or not.

Albert Caruana said...

Tim, that can be brought up at the CCS post-season meeting.

Anonymous said...

CCS has taken over this thread :-)
Championship season baby!

Albert Caruana said...

First of, I will disregard you calling me ignorant and just assume you got caught up in the moment.

I stand corrected in the league comment. That is a very competitive league. My point was that most of his competition was against league competition and we typically don't get to see what he can do until CCS.

As for my kid, I thought he belonged on the list. He ran 15:30 in his first race after two weeks of running. He had the 12th fastest time overall on Saturday running by himself.

The point is Jorge is definitely one of the top runners in CCS and on Saturday he proved that by running the fastest time.

Anonymous said...

Interesting to read all of these comments regarding CCS. I do agree there is a valid point around St. Francis and Bellarmine having an unfair advantage over the public schools. While the parents in Mt. View may not want to admit this -- being able to pull from the entire Bay Area is a factor and contributes to some of the bitterness from the kids in public schools (I have personal experience with this attitude). It's not to "take away" from SF, but in my mind, it's not as impressive since you're dealing with a built-in advantage. Also - I think some of the reactions I'm reading from those wanting to tout Jorge Estrella is the prevailing attitude that SF and Bellarmine just train harder than everyone else and like magic, they now multiple runners in the 15:00s at Crystal. It would be interesting to see how successful the SF and Bell coaches would be if they were handed a public school in San Jose.

Albert Caruana said...

I have coached in NCS and CCS and I will tell you that this public vs private school topic is way more prevalent in CCS than NCS. Many of the top programs in NCS are public schools and if you look at the state top-ranked teams, many of them are public schools as well.

I am fairly confident that good coaches will be successful at most schools, private or public. People seem to have this a misconception that private schools just get ready made runners and that is why they are successful. Those coaches have to work just as hard to encourage students to come out for their sport.

Anonymous said...

For those who complain about St. Francis and Bellarmine, please remember is cost money to attend a Catholic school, education is not free like a public school. Give and take with the so called advantage.

Anonymous said...

trying to bring the discussion back together (and apologies but this maybe a different thread)... Seems NorCal may have a great state meet. Potentially up to 4 individual boys winners, maybe two teams? One reason for all this discussion around CCS taking over this thread and credit for some kids is because CCS AND NCS are stacked this year. hope they do well in state, could be a big norCal year.

Anonymous said...

@11:57 - So are you saying that because private schools aren't free, it's ok that they get an unfair advantage? (afterall, you're paying to have that advantage!)

Anonymous said...

The public vs private debate is going on across the country. I wonder if California will adopt Texas' stance, which has different divisions and tournaments for private and public schools.

Anonymous said...

I have heard the public/private debate for years, especially on this site. A few years ago it got so heated that Albert had to calm things down a bit. The reason you have to submit your comment for his approval before it is posted is due to that debate. It seems to get hot and heavy at the end of XC season, especially when there is a private school near the top of the standings in the CCS. Now that some have speculated that SF might be the best CCS team ever, the reaction has been predictable. Call it jealously on the one side or an unfair advantage on the other, nothing is going to change the facts of how and why kids choose the schools they do.The good news is that the SF boys know how hard they and their coaches work to get to this high level and they will not be discouraged by the negative talk. From what I saw at the CCS meet and what I heard about the WCAL meet, SF will give it their best shot to win the D2 title at state.

Anonymous said...

Some more context on the public/private debate outside of CCS: at the sac-Joaquin section finals, public schools won every race except for D2 girls and D5 boys. As a runner who goes to a public school, I can say that neither I nor my teammates would appreciate being separated from our private school rivals in the name of competitive equity

Anonymous said...

What about that D1 third spot. I checked the results and it appears the third best d1 team at ccs ran faster than 3rd at SJS. My proposal is that the wildcard spot is given to the fastest 3rd place team in all of NorCal (CCS, NCS, Northern, SJS, SF, Oak). This would allow the state to give that wildcard to the actual fastest team rather than predicting the speed of a certain section for future years. As the coach of an SJS team, I do like that 3rd spot however, I think its only fair to give that wildcard spot to its rightful team.

Anonymous said...

Well the CCS course is shorter than the SJS course so that may be what caused the faster time by the CCS 3rd team. Also time comparisons will not prove which team is faster because every course is different and the conditions will vary too.

Albert Caruana said...

That's not how the auto spots work. If CCS wants to get their 3rd auto spot back, they will need Bellarmine and Los Altos to break into the top 10. I am not sure if one year will do it but a couple of top 10 finishes in consecutive years might do the trick.

As for Toro Park and Willow Hills, Willow Hills is a much slower course.

Anonymous said...

Made even slower by the wind and rain during the D1 Boys race as well as the bark (as earlier mentioned.)

Anonymous said...

Can we get some rankings and discussion going for NCS this weekend? The races seem pretty tight, especially that D2 Boys race once again!

Albert Caruana said...

I just finished the NCS preview article for the meet program. I will post the last set of rankings in the next couple of days.

Anonymous said...

"As the coach of a SJS team..."? Seriously? A coach from the SJS section isn't aware that each course is different and that German Fernandez, arguably the greatest boys HS XC runner in state history didn't break 15 there (his 15:03 course record was 30 seconds faster than anybody in history until Grijalva and Vernau dueled last year). I pray that the poster is not a coach, because that comment reflects below average knowledge of how the sport works and how the number of state meet spots are handled by the CIF.

Albert Caruana said...

I might have to start passing out some nice pills. Can we all just get along???

Anonymous said...

what happened to Denner sisters on Saturday? 2nd and 4th is great for any runner but they had been dominating people since last track season.

Albert Caruana said...

Olivia O'Keeffe is the defending state champion in Division 1. Some could look at it as a mile surprise but it's definitely not shocking.

Anonymous said...

Olivia did run a great race, going right to the front and pushing the pace, but I can't remember the last time I saw Maddy get gapped so quickly and decisively. My guess is that they, like Ullrich (D4) boys ran some serious workouts leading up to sections knowing that not only were they almost guaranteed to qualify, they are also looking at peaking in the next 2-3 weeks as they are certainly candidates to make noise at not only the state, but also national level.

Anonymous said...

Did no one watch the SJS Girls D1 race? Maddy had a splint on her left ankle during the race; she is injured and she only ran to qualify her team. If you noticed, she didn't run sub-sections at all. After the race, she was in a full boot and was in obvious discomfort. I'd put her down as a maybe for Woodward.

Anonymous said...

I was looking at the CCS results again last night, and noticed one athlete from one of the State qualifying schools was listed in the results, but did not actually run in the race. This athlete was substituted for with another runner by the team Coach on race day, but the Coach evidently didn't turn in a Change of Athlete slip. What does the rules say about this? Runner DQed? Team DQed?

Anonymous said...

1. Could be the timer. A name change could have been done but not corrected in time for live results.
2. This is an issue for the CCS office. The likelihood of anything being done is next to zero. Odds will go up with the sub was an ineligible runner due to grades or not meetingbthe 50% rule.

What team is it?

Anonymous said...

Are we going to hear about the disqualified CCS team any time soon?

Albert Caruana said...

I don't believe a team was dq'ed.

Anonymous said...

It was the St. Francis girls team in D2. Sophia Morris is listed as finishing in 34th. She did not race.

Anonymous said...

What exactly are the rules covering this and who can "officially" report this?

Albert Caruana said...

You can sub a runner at CCS provided that runner is eligible to compete. You make it as a team so your lineup can be flexible from league to CCS to state.

Anonymous said...

This should be sent to Steve Filios. There is a whistleblower policy in place. If there was no substitution made to the officials before the race the team ran with an ineligible runner. The Saint Francis coach is fully aware of the rules. If no subsitution was made Bib the team should be disqualified and coach reprimanded.

However Filios is very friendly with SF. Even if the rules were not followed I could see this being swept under the rug and listed as a timer error. But Sean is the best in the business. If I had to guess a bib swap was in place.

Anonymous said...

You are allowed to change runners on the day of the race but you're suppose to fill out a change of runner slip, right? I guess this comes down to, do the rules specify any penalties for not filling out that form?

Anonymous said...

All protests have to be made with 30 minutes of the race. Challenging an interpretation of a rule has to be done within 48 hours. Both are up. SF girls go no matter what happened with the #6 girl.

Anonymous said...

Steve is not friendly to SF in any sense. If anything, the CCS under Steve is brutal to the WCAL in track in that they only allow 2 auto qualifiers even when far more should qualify on to the CCS. Many good WCAL runners are left at home while lesser runners from other leagues move on.

Albert Caruana said...

That's not how CCS works. Steve is a great administrator. This has been brought up before but if you want to see changes when it comes to CCS, those changes have to start at the league level. They are not initiated by CCS.

Anonymous said...

@4:44 that’s not how it works with eligibility. You can protest for impeding etc. but if you run with an ineligible runner you forfeit. It happens all the time, most recently Piedmont Hills gave back their trophy for 2nd place at State a year later. I also know of a coach who was fired for switching bibs if runners, and that was at an Invitational not CCS. This whole thing may seem minor but they knew the rules and my gut says they thought they’d get away with it. It all seems very odd. Has anyone notified CCS?

Anonymous said...

SF #6 was eligible. Let’s move on. See everyone at State!

Anonymous said...

@7:19 the proper substitute form was filled out before the start of the race? If the runner was not legally entered it is a forfeit. Why you do eager to move on? If you are the coach and filled out the form come forward. The fact they haven’t (and read this board) tell me the rules were violated.

Anonymous said...

I’m almost sure the girls coach at SF is not on this board. She has over 30 years of experience so odds are she completed whatever form had to be done before the race. It’s more likely a scoring entry issue. There is so much going on before the races that geting a substitution into the computer is not the top priority. Sorry to throw a wet blanket on the hopes of the #4 team but SF is going to state.

Anonymous said...

"If the runner was not legally entered it is a forfeit. "

Where is that rule? Eligibility is determined by their standing (residential, academic, etc.), not by entry into the meet. If there was a concern that an INeligible athlete was run under a false name, then that is certainly a violation. But running under a different/inaccurate bib by itself is not a violation.

Anonymous said...

@6:59
Odds you don’t know. Odds are at least one coach from Saint Francis is on here. Odds are the rules weren’t followed. Odds are nothing will be done and they will run at state.

I am perplexed tho. Who the heck knows a #6 runner didn’t run? Let alone what they look like to call this out?

Anonymous said...

I'm the one the made the original post about SF girls. I was at the starting line of the D2 girls race and just happened to notice Saint Francis had 8 girls in uniform out at the line, but right before the start, saw Sophia leave the starting line and go talk to some people. (I happen to know who she is). Never really thought about this until I saw her name in the official results.(This of course is easy to verify - just ask SF coach). I have nothing for or against SF, and have no stakes in what happens. I did NOT report this to CCS. I brought it up here because there are many knowledgeable people here, and I was just curious what the exact rules are for not officially filing a change form is, if that is what happened. And that there may be people who this impacts that do care.

Anonymous said...

"I was just curious what the exact rules are for not officially filing a change form is,"

There is no rule and thus no consequence.

Anonymous said...

@4:02.
Not true. Read rule 9-1 article 2. Clearly lays out rule and consequence.

Anonymous said...

Thanks @6:27. (In reference to who you were responding to, people who don't know what they don't know always seem to sound so sure of themselves).

Curious in the Bay said...

I do not have a rule book. What does it say?

Anonymous said...

"Not true. Read rule 9-1 article 2. Clearly lays out rule and consequence."

http://www.cifccs.org/governance/pdf_bylaws_and_policies/2017-2018/17_Article_VII_Eligibility.pdf

No, that is for false information about a student's eligibility. For example, if a student isn't academically or residentially eligible and that false information is supplied to CCS indicating otherwise. That's why the Piedmont Hills athlete a few years ago was disqualified. She was not residentially eligible while the school certified that she was.

This has nothing to do with whether or not the correct name is used for the results. Again, if the incorrect name is used to cover up the fact that the actual athlete who participated is ineligible, then that is a violation. If there is a question about whether the athlete who did end up running was ineligible (residentially, academically, or otherwise), then certainly bring that up. But again, just because the name is incorrect in the results is not grounds for ineligibility.

Read the by-laws again (and the XC specific by-laws and participant bulletin as well). There is no rule stating that the names in the results need to be correct. As long as the athletes who participated are eligible, then they could even be listed as "Runner 1", "Runner 2", etc.

Rule book not bylaws said...

Please read 9-1-2 if the NFHS cross country / Track & Field rule book. Those are the governing rules of the sport.

Anonymous said...

As we have been saying, SF girls are going to state. Their #6 girl is eligible so there will be no disqualification. While these technicalities are fun to talk about in the abstract, we have to remember in this case we are talking about real kids who deserve to go to their state meet because of what they accomplished on the course. Good luck at state everybody. See you in Fresno!

Anonymous said...

Granted, I don't have the latest rules book, but in the one I have, rule 9-1-2 is about course marking on a cross country course.

Confused in the East Bay said...

2017 NFHS Track & Field Rules (Page 71)

Rule 9-1 Article 2:
A competitor shall wear the assigned contestant number and/or computerized transponders/chips during competition. The number and/or transponders/chips shall be worn, unaltered, for purposes of official timing and place finish.

PENALTY: A competitor not wearing the assigned contestant number and/or computerized transponders/chips or altering such items in a manner which interferes with the recording of place finish is a rule resulting in disqualification from the race.

On a personal note, if you have been coaching long enough you know of instances where a competitor was disqualified for wearing the wrong bib. You may of even heard of coaches being reprimanded for this (one infamous case was at Arcadia HS). In track in the NCS a school was DQ’d at league for running an athlete that was not the one listed. It has also happened at state numerous times. If you give another athlete someone else number or pretend to be someone else it is a disqualification. I am not sure why anyone is arguing this.

Anonymous said...

I think many are arguing this because they fail to understand the governing rules for the sport for high school are the NFHS (National Federation) rules. The CCS By-laws are additions that apply only specifically to CCS on top of the NFHS rules. Something not mentioned in the bylaws doesn't mean there is no rule for it, it just means there are no special CCS rules for it, and the applicable rules are in the NFHS rules.

Also, the NFHS rules are not available free online. You have to pay for it.

Anonymous said...

State entries are posted, protest is over...done.

Anonymous said...

There was never an official protest nor was CCS or officials notified. Just a discussion. I don’t know if the errogance of the Saint Francis supporters and the “so what there’s nothing you can do about it” attitude is someone trolling or real, but that kind of attitude is why there is such a divide between public and private schools. It is clear your coach did something that was wrong but understandable with an explanation. A mistake in judgement was made and that happens. But the “move along, nothing to see here” only fuels that there’s much more going on we don’t know about. Saint Francis is a good school with a well rounded program of academics and athletics. But for some reason the attitude of the parents rub me the wrong way.

Anonymous said...

Some explanation would be welcome. An injury would be an easy one. Is this a common occurrence every year? Can other schools go to the start line with 8 eligible runners, and decide who’s running day of? I’ve switched lineups from league finals to CCS before, but I remember having to have names submitted by a certain date early In the week. Right now we’re saying there in no rule, and even if there was no one checks, or it must be protested to be applied.

Anonymous said...

@9:24 I have a lot of contact with the SF teams and the parents. As mentioned in other strings, the varsity boys and girls teams have a lot of young kids on them. That means a lot of the parents are relatively new to HS XC. I can tell you from contact with them that, as a group, they are at the same time enthusiastic and inexperienced. Attributing many of the rules-related comments above to the SF parents is amusing. A few may know enough to make those comments but the vast majority would have no idea about the issue. I don't think it is fair to impugn them as a group for comments that were most likely made by others. In my experience, the kids and the parents at SF are humble (especially the boys who have been taken apart by Bell for more than 10 years).

Anonymous said...

Hey Albert, do you know when All-CCS teams will come out?

Albert Caruana said...

A group of coaches will meet and vote on all-CCS teams. That will be in December.

Anonymous said...

(I didn't ask the earlier question but I'm curious) Are those teams determined solely on the CCS meet?

Albert Caruana said...

The all-CCS teams are determined based on the entire season performances.

Anonymous said...

Who do you think should win Senior, Junior, Sophomore, and Freshman of the year?

Anonymous said...

Meika, Owen Mackenzie, Marco Del Canto, Kevin Andrews

Anonymous said...

Cool. Mine is Meika - Bellarmine (Not much explaining to do there), Colton Colonna - Saint Francis (15:26 Clovis, 15:02 Crystal, Mackenzie comes seriously close, but I think Colonna is slightly more deserving), Juan Pablo Garcia - Saint Francis (15:31 5k, 15:39 Clovis.. Dal Canto ran a phenomenal 15:24 at Crystal but simply doesn't outweigh Garcia's other marks), and Kamran Murray - Menlo (16:01 Crystal and 16:18 Toro)

- A NorCal XC fan

Hank said...

Albert
Might need a new thread for All-CCS team.

Hank

Anonymous said...

Estrella top senior at CCS and MBR solid all year. I’ll hold my vote for after state. In this sport it’s how you finish not how you start.
Thus my vote goes to Mackenzie. Los Altos had the top freshman in CCS this year.

I’m curious why Hank & Lynbrook was so quiet on the SF disqualification discussion? Obviously Hank has read this thread.

Anonymous said...

@10:04 What about sophomore?

Hank said...

I had no info on the matter so nothing to add. What kind of input were you looking for from me?

Hank

Anonymous said...

@11:30 ("NorCal XC fan")
Okay...

So it turns out there are some SF guys reading this thread... just didn't wanna chime in on any of the fishy business with the girls team.

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