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Monday, December 12, 2011

2011 All NorCal High School XC Teams - Boys & Girls

We are in the process of selecting the All NorCal HS XC Teams.  You can help with the process by sharing your thoughts on who belongs on all the teams.  To get a better idea of how the teams are selected, check out last year's selections:
http://www.dyestatcal.com/ATHLETICS/XC/2010/allnorca.htm
All NorCal History:  http://www.dyestatcal.com/ATHLETICS/XC/alnorcal.htm

Who was the NorCal Runner of the Year?  (boys and girls)
Senior, Junior, Sophomore and Freshmen of the Year?  (boys and girls)
Who were the best runners in each section?  (boys and girls)
Who belongs on the all Freshman team?  (Top 10 boys and girls)

Feel free to add your selections in the comment section below.  Thank you in advance for your help.

93 comments:

Anonymous said...

Boys
1. Trevor Reinhart for frosh runner of the year
2. Gabe Arias Sheridan for Sophmore Runner of the year
3. John Lawson for Junior Runner of the year
4. .....Parker Deuel or Thomas Joyce for Senior Runner of the year
5. Luis Luna for Runner of the year (admittedly he wasnt exceptional at NCS or state, but he did qualify for footlocker- beating a lot of guys who had beat him earlier in the year.

Girls
Carrie Verdon for Runner of the year

Joey Kochlacs said...

Thomas Joyce
Carrie Verdon

Anonymous said...

Gabe for Sophomore runner of the year. Michael Murphy of SJND deserves to make all-frosh.

Kevin said...

Boys:
All-NorCal 1st team:
Aubrey Myjer
Thomas Joyce
Yohannes Estifanos
Kevin Bishop
John Lawson
Luis Luna
Parker Deuel

Senior: Luis Luna/Aubrey Myjer (tie)
Junior: John Lawson
Soph: Gabe A-S
Frosh: Trevor Reinhart

Frosh 1st Team: Reinhart, Chris Foster, Emilio Torres-Gonzales, Neilson Powless, Steven Sum, Mark Vingralek, Peter Schlacte, Ricardo Romero

Girls:
1st Team All-NorCal:
Carrie Verdon
Nikki Hiltz
Sarah Robinson
Anna Maxwell
Vanessa Fraser
Karlie Garcia
Madeline Ankhelyi

Senior: Carrie Verdon
Junior: Nikki Hiltz
Soph: Sarah Robinson
Frosh: Kaila Gibson

Frosh Team: Kaila Gibson, Diribe Abdo, Christine Bayliss, Miranda Meyers, Jenny Xu, Mary Orders

How'd I do?

Kevin said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Andrew said...

I can't think of anyone missing from Kevin's picks.

Anonymous said...

Thomas Joyce: NCS top time. CIF top time. Would have qualified for Footlocker had he not been knocked down and trampled at start.

Anonymous said...

Karlie Garcia should be runner of the year. Since emphasis is placed on the later meets she only missed out on state by a step, won the west region and was the top finisher at Footlocker. Yes Verndon didn't run but that should count against her. Garcia should hands down be runner of the year no question.

Anonymous said...

Albert, how about a top 20 all-time post high school list from Nor Cal.

There have been Olympians, World Championship qualifiers and too many All-Americans to count.

Now that would be a cool list! But be sure to include some of their accomplishments for the young kids!

Anonymous said...

Boys:

Runner of the Year: Myjer, his state performance was exceptional
Senior of the Year: Luis Luna, qualifying to Footlocker makes up, plus Luna was undefeated till NCS, and state.
Junior of the Year: John Lawson with out a doubt = state champion and top 20 at footlocker? pretty awesome
Sophomore of the Year = Gabe A-S = he set the record for d5 (15:16)
Frosh of the Year = Trevor Reinhart (15:32? thats crazy crazy fast.

Girls

Runner of the Year: Carrie Verdon, Garcia was never sub-17, plus she was undefeated, despite not running footlocker, i think she deservesit

Senior:
Junior: Karlie Garcia
Sophomore: Sarah Robinson
Freshman: Kaila Gibson

Anonymous said...

Force rank all runners based on results at the end of the season. Nationals first(footlocker and nike), then regionals, then state, and lastly sections. Just like track. The last races against the best are the most important.

Anonymous said...

Although Verdon beat Garcia in two head to head match-ups she was unable to "answer the bell" in what would have been their third bout.Verdon is definitely the stronger runner but injuries are a big part of this sport.Garcia knows what that's all about from last year.Verdon owned Garcia at Stanford,barely nipped her at state but was physically unable to race at Footlocker thereby giving the title of "Top Runner in Norcal" to Garcia for winning Footlocker West and placing 5th in the Footlocker Finals.Our sport is about endurance,toughness and is this case durability.

Anonymous said...

^ no. How many times has Garcia beat Verdon? 0. they've gone head to head Early in the season, and late in the season, both times Carrie came out on top. in the state meet especially, Verdon displayed that she is a more dominant runner than Garcia.
People need to forget the politics behind these selections, especially when we're talking about TOP NorCal runner.
Carrie went Undefeated this year.
Karlie Garcia did not.
Carrie ran a 17:19 for 5 kilometers at woodward park.
Karlie Garcia ran a 17:20 for the same course, on the same day, in the same conditions. there is nothing to be debated here.
Carrie is faster.
Carrie is better.
Carrie is the Top Runner in Northern California.

NCS Fan said...

^ Disagreed.Respectfuly of course. Yes, this sport is about all those things. But if were are sitting here asking ourselves who the bbetter runner is between Verdon and Garcia, Verdon comes out on top. In every matchup they've had Verdon has come out over Garcia. If this was a competition of who can stay the healthiest, then neither of them would win. But stats are stats and Verdon comes out over Garcia in every race they've had. To give Garcia the top spot simply because she ran one more race than Verdon, is ridiculous. For most highschool athletes, competition stops at State. It's awesome that Garcia did as well as she did at footlocker. But not everyone who runs cross country was in that race. If NXN and Footlocker were combined into a simple "Nationals" race, it might be different. but the truth is, Footlocker and Nike should be looked upon as very high-end invitationals. Verdon beat Garcia in every race they had together. Quite simply, Verdon is better. Thats who you give the title to.

NCS Fan said...

Sorry, Agreed with the post above mine, disagreed with the one above that.

Albert Caruana said...

Thank you very much for the feedback. It's going to be very difficult to select the runners of the year this year. For reasons mentioned above, there are no easy slam dunk decisions.

Continued feedback encouraged.

Ozzie said...

I don't know who should be removed from some of the above lists, but as a state champion, Julia Maxwell has to be added. She should also be considered for soph of the year.

Anonymous said...

If Karlie Garcia is going to win top NorCal runner based on her performance at Foot Locker West. Hands down Blair Hurlock should win sophomore of the year over Gabe S-A. he beat Blake Haney AND Thomas Joyce.

Anonymous said...

Albert
You need to establish guidelines as to whether FL counts in the seeding criteria.If FL counts then Garcia is clearly the winner based on her win at FL west and #5 at FL nats.If FL does not count then Verdon wins based on two head to head victories.If Serena Williams beat Maria Sharapova at the Australian Open and the French Open finals but was unable to compete at Wimbledon and the US Open due to injury and Sharapova won Wimbledon and made it to the US Open semis, who would be the player of the year?This might be too complicated for you runners out there but clarification needs to be made on FL inclusion in the rankings.

Albert Caruana said...

To clarify, the all-norcal teams are selected by about 10 individuals (myself included). There is no criteria. You vote on who you think deserve the awards.

Some years, it's fairly clear cut and some years (like this year) it's really not, especially for runners of the year.

Anonymous said...

The Verdon, Garcia matchup is getting some great attention. Both great girls, both great runners. Probably both deserve it.
Garcia seemed to get a little better each week after state and her times at Western Footlocker and Nationals compared to Verdon's last year were significately faster at Mt Sac and Balboa? Tough choice. Could be a tie.

Anonymous said...

If verdon and Luna win the senior award they will have won their class award since their freshman year, cool fact

Anonymous said...

Top 10 Freshman Girls
State Meet times
Kaila Gibson 18:02.3
Christine Bayliss 18:04.6
Diribe Abdo 18:13.3
Miranda Myers 18:36.5
Mary Orders 18:52.7
Rachel Johnson 18:56.2
Jenna Storms 18:56.5
Andrea Natoli 18:57
Jenny Xu 18:59.7
Yulisa Abundis 19:09

Both Gibson and Bayliss ran in FL west with Bayliss finishing in 15th place in 18:49.Gibson was 57th in 19:47.Based on this Bayliss would be the top freshman girl.

The top 4 freshman were the fastest freshman times at the state meet.

ghpadd said...

1. Just think, with 10 voters there could, in theory be a tie for the "Runner of the Year" or in any category. Hmmmmmm.

2. Should Freshman of the year be limited to only those who ran at State Meet? Or should Outstanding Frosh, that by the quality of the varsity team only ran Frosh at their Section meet, also be considered?

3. Which is more important in XC, head-to-head competitions on a similar course that lends to one athlete's strength, or the outstandingly fast times run on each athletes' strength course (flat, versus rolling, versus Hilly)?

4. When there is an outstanding team that has several outstanding runners that train together...including a Frosh, and another frosh that trains by him/herself and has an outstanding performance (top 5-10 Frosh at State), which was truly the more outstanding performance?

5. Each race, though run on the same course on the same day, is different in how it is run. If the goal is to win, should times carry more weight than finishing in the top ten at State? What if the times were within 5 seconds (thus in the scheme of things; identical)and the slightly slower runner was a medalist?

6. Can someone have an off day at the State meet yet still be the top runner of the Nor-Cal, of their class or even make the top team?

Each of the judges must look to these and other questions in making their decisions. Thus, by having 10 judges the probability of using the same criteria is decreased, and the probability of the best final ranking is increased.

You can bet I will compare my listing to the final choices to see how close I was.

Anonymous said...

Just noticed the Jacque Taylor won runner of the year for each class she was in. Fresh, Soph, Jr, and Sr. No one better deserving than her. Fantastic young lady.

Anonymous said...

Boys runner and Girls runner of the year needs to be voted on who did the best at the end of the year. This is clear. It is a Visine moment.

Anonymous said...

If you look at which of these athletes performed at their best when their teams depended on them most, the choice is easy. Plenty of good performances this year, but there are a couple of athletes here that carried the considerable burden of team leadership and team expectation on their shoulders like no one else.

These athletes are deserving on their individual merits alone, but the voters, just as they do for other sports, should consider not just their individual stats, but the stats of their teammates and teams, when determining the "Runner of the Year."

Which of these great performers made their greatest contribution when it matter most to their teams? Which of these amazing runners made their teammates and teams equally great?

If you don't think this should be a factor, then you are probably someone who thinks Matt kemp should have won the MLB MVP Award even though the Dodgers sucked.

Albert Caruana said...

Care to share your choices?

Anonymous said...

Albert,

The Freshmen team(s)consist of the top 10 individuals. For clarification purposes is there just a single individual who gets recognized for Soph, Junior and Senior class or are there also ten from each class?

good idea said...

there should be top ten from each class....

Albert Caruana said...

There are 7 first team, 7 second team, 7 third team and 20 honorable mention. There are 10 freshmen boys that make up the all freshman team. Usually more frosh girls are included as part of the first four teams mentioned, the ten frosh girls are spread out over 1st, 2nd, 3rd, HM and all frosh team.

Anonymous said...

blair hurlock doesn't deserve it because he didn't participate in any races with his team (not that its his fault) but it goes back to the nacouzi debate last year. i think that in all honesty, its a tie for most outstanding runner for girls.

Carrie Verdon was undefeated.
Karlie Garcia came in 5th and won FL West.


Stanford, Roughrider, DFAL, NCS, State

vs. Mt. SAC, whatever league shes in, SJS, State, FL West, 5th at FL nat's.

5 outstanding performances vs 5 outstanding performances. seems like its a tie.

Anonymous said...

If Garcia had won FL nats would she be Norcal #1?

Albert....you should move this discussion above coaches roundtable=o hits.

Albert Caruana said...

There you go.

Anonymous said...

Luis Luna and Verdon for Senior runner of the year. Luna has ran well all season. Not to mention he had one of the best races in league when he shattered the Spring Lake record. He was undefeated up until NCS and State but was able to make up for his bad races at footlocker.
Verdon has pretty much had the best cross country season any girl has had. She has always been one step ahead of Garcia.

Kevin said...

I'm going to nitpick on the above comment: Luna wasn't quite undefeated. I was lucky enough to beat him by a couple seconds at the Crystal Springs Invitational a week after Stanford. I was pretty proud of that race because it takes a lot to hang with someone of Luis's caliber. Just thought I'd throw that out there. Carry on!

Anonymous said...

Someone commented the Garcia had not beat Verdon this year. She could have beat her 2 times if Verdon had raced in the last two races of the year with the best runners in the country. Not just the state. Yes, she was undefeated this year, but she did not run against the best in the country. The previous year she did not fair very well against the best. I am a Carrie Verdon fan and she had a great year. (She would have run if not injured)

Albert Caruana said...

That's all speculation. You can't base potential awards on what could have possibly happened.

Anonymous said...

Girls Freshman of the Year

Looking at the season as a whole, it should hands down be Bayliss. While Gibson ran a great race at State, she had no where near the season that Bayliss had. Here's a quick comparison:
* Bayliss won Stanford Inv. D2 race in 17:59(Gibson DNR)
* Bayliss won NCS D2 race by 33 seconds in 17:47(Gibson 3rd in CCS D4, 1:01 behind 1st)
* Bayliss 2nd at Lowell Inv. and EBAL Finals (Gibson 3rd in Frosh race at EarlyBird Inv and 5th at SCCAL Finals)
* Bayliss 8th at Mt. Sac Indiv. Sweeps in 17:57(Gibson DNR)
* Gibson 6th at State in D4 race in 18:02 (Bayliss 12th in D2 race in 18:04)
* Bayliss 15th at FootLocker West in 18:49 and in their only head to head competition, Gibson was 58 seconds behind in 19:47 in 57th place

Again, great State meet by Gibson, but Bayliss clearly had a significantly better season.

Anonymous said...

I know this will probably get much disagreement but the Footlocker races though prestigious and filled with talent are not CIF sponsored events I believe. There is very little reason for a runner with the talents of Verdon to risk further injury to run at these races. She did the right thing by resting and making sure she's healthy for track season.In my opinion the selection process should throw more weight to the large invites, Sections and State meet where all individuals are still competing for their high school teams and a little less weight to what is equivalent to the "All Star" game of XC. Have at me guys I know there will be many who disagree!

Anonymous said...

I am not a fan of the post state races counting for "All-Nor Cal," they are of part of the season. If Verdon didn't run State than that is another issue. Personally I think the regular season has more value.

That said, it is crazy to think a girl that finished 5th in the nation would not be the All-Nor Cal runner of the year. If I remember right last year's runner of the year didn't even run the XC season or in the State meet but because she won FL West was given the honor. If the last 4 meets: Section, State, Regionals, Nationals are the only races we are looking at with an emphasis places on the end races than there is no question, Garcia is the winner.

Albert Caruana said...

Correction, the runner you mentioned is Julie Nacouzi and she was voted HM despite her late season heroics at Footlocker.
http://www.dyestatcal.com/ATHLETICS/XC/2010/allnorca.htm

Anonymous said...

So if a runner is undefeated during the regular season, & post season meets then skips the All Star event should she be penalized? Verdon should be runner of the year. Footlocker is an event that is separate and has nothing to do with the high school season. The fact she didn't run here shouldn't even factor into the decision. Let's just say Garcia is MVP of the All Star event and runner up in NorCal to a runner who beat her twice and was undefeated in the "Real" XC season. I love Karlie Garcia and totally enjoyed her Footlocker performances but they weren't part of the high school XC season in my very humble opinion :)

Anonymous said...

Joyce for runner of the year.
Reinhart for frosh.
Arias-Sheridan for Soph.
Lawson for Junior.
Luna for for Senior.

Anonymous said...

Garcia and Verdon raced twice. Verdon won both times. what's the problem here?

Anonymous said...

Garcia and Verdon raced twice. Verdon won both times. what's the problem here?

Anonymous said...

I agree with the last posts.

And look at what Verdon did: Broke 17 for 5k at stanford, set course record at hidden valley and hayward. Broke 17 at hayward, which is only 2nd time that's ever been done. and leads a young team to huge performances at stanford and ncs... how many returners did campo have and 3 freshmen?

I think its true, that if you have 2 people that had similar stats you need to look at their team. And you should look at what was on the line when they raced best. Verdon was unbeatable when it mattered. Heck, when she raced she was unbeatable, period.

ghpadd said...

The difference between unbeaten and unbeatable is that one is an fact and the other is an opinion. Everyone can be beaten, and will be beaten. If you review each athlete of the final top 3 chosen All Nor-Cal teams you will see many great youth athletes that set course records on courses....that many others have never run on. That's what makes the selection process that much more intriguing.

I LOVE all of the comments and passion.

Each of these fine young athletes deserve all of the recognition they can get for their dedication, hard work and sacrifice for themselves, their team, and their School. The passion in your comments prove that they have succeeded!!

hank said...

This is why there are no guidelines on how to vote, if there were guidelines then the computer could do it. I too enjoy reading the comments, in particular because they give me insight on other athletes rather than the Top 2.

hank

bukminster said...

Strongly feel that final rankings should be based upon performance at the State (or FootLocker) meets -- these runners train to peak at the tail end of the season for a reason.

Banjo said...

This is a great discussion. All the kids that have been brought up and/or named in this post have had great seasons. There's no denying that.

So let me add to the discussion for the boys.

There's a whole lot of NCS love here... there's no doubt about that.

But can someone explain to me why Aubrey Myjer should NOT get the runner of the year nod?

He had the fastest time at the state meet for NorCal kids, which knocks out the argument for using the state meet as a guideline... PLUS, he qualified for NXN as an individual... 1 of only 5 guys that qualified individually from CA... others being Danny Martinez, Jonah Diaz, Dylan Blankenbaker and Bryan Guijarro, a pretty darn good list if you ask me, which knocks out the argument for "post-season achievements".

Also, Thomas Joyce has been getting a lot of love on this post and deservingly so... but I'm going to point out that John Lawson actually ran a faster time than Joyce did at state (15:19.5 to 15:19.8), so if we're going to have a legitimate discussion, I'm going to go out on a limb and say John Lawson deserves the nod ahead of Joyce.

Just my two cents, but what do I know?

hank said...

Check out this link:

http://www.dyestatcal.com/ATHLETICS/XC/2011/ccs_rank.htm

and note that Estifanos beat Myjer 3 out of 4 times (only loosing at State while going out with the leaders at 4:43 and paying the price). So, does one race a season make?

hank

Alex said...

Sorry Hank,
I don't really like that argument. I'm not saying Estifanos didn't have an amazing season, breaking 15 at Crystal is pretty legit, especially for a junior. I'm also not going to deny that I'm a little biased here, but I think Myjer's performances all year are remarkable because he didn't run cross country last year and he's never run track. I know that his times weren't impressive until CCS finals, but he didn't start training until the school year started and prior to that hadn't really done training for anything other than lacrosse since the Mountain View boys won the D2 state title in 2009.

In my opinion, Myjer's performances are worthy of much more than people on this thread seem to think they are. I just wish i knew more about all the runners in NorCal so I could make a more educated list of who I think should win in all these categories.

For now I'm just going to leave my guess as...

I agree with the post from Kevin near the beginning. I don't see anyone missing from his list. And he asked how he was doing and only one person responded to him and I wanted to let him know he's doing a great job.

And so are you Albert, I can't wait to see the official result and find out who the professionals think deserves these titles.

has too much time said...

Ok so I had a lot of time so I made complete list of what I think it should be, let me know if there are any glaring ommissions.
Runner of Year:Thomas Joyce-Campo(SB)
Senior of Year Aubrey Myjer-Mtn. View (SB)
Junior-John Lawson-Drake
Soph-Gabe Arias-St. Joe's
Frosh-Trevor Reinhart
1st Team
Luis Luna-Piner
Alex Conner-Sonoma Valley
Parker Duell-SRV
Kevin Bishop-Monta Vista
Yohannes Estifanos-Milpitas
Richard Ho-Leland
Nolan Tonkyn-Albany
2nd Team
Nick Ratto-St. Joe's
Tyler Troxel-Acalanes
Connor Clark-University
Eric Neill-Yreka
Trevor Stephens-Del Oro (SB)
John Whelan (SB)
Sean Jagerson-Del Campo
3rd Team
Miguel Vazquez-Andrew Hill
Paul Holden-Ukiah
Andrew Prior-Gunn
Jack Scranton-Davis
Tomas Anthony-Cupertino
Jaime Silva-Piner
Vinson Compestine-Campo
Honorable Mention
Dylan Chamberlain-Paradise
Hunter Tyler-Woodcreek
Keith Geiger-Campo
Same Hales-King City
Grant Foster-Los Gatos
Jack Bordoni-Bellarmine
Sean Davis-Valley Christian
Esteban Valencia-Bellarmine
Danny Stalters-Northgate
Tyler Mercado-Del Campo
Jordan Rushing-Del Campo
Trent Bredel-Granite Bay
Cody Johnson-S.L.V.
Charles Deanda-Bellarmine
John Horvath-Woodcreek
Kevin Staatz-Mtn. View
Dillon Read-Miramonte
Andrew Melendez-Bishop O'Dowd
Tim Williams-Yreka
Chris Midkiff-Chico
OS-Gerardo Torres-Skyline
SFS-William Chen-Lowell

Anonymous said...

^ looks like everyone who should be is there to me, although I would have to disagree on senior of the year (Luis luna in my opinion) but other than that it looks good. nice list

Anonymous said...

First, I know there is a lot of love for Chuck and his Campolindo machine over there but the fact is this is not cut and dry. Verdon trailed the entire race at State and let Garcia do all the work and won by mere steps. Verdon played it perfect to her credit but the poster on here talking like Verdon was dominant is simply not true.

Also Garcia got stronger in the post season. FL West and Nats was awesome and was simply awesome.

I agree with the poster that if FL counts than it is Garcia. If not, Verdon.

Perhaps this might be a co-winner as each runner is equally deserving.

I also agree that if the post season counts most Mejyer is the runner of the year. Top at his section, best at State and ran at NXN. By far #1 no questions.

Sorry Campolindo fans, they were very good but quite simply not the best.

Perhaps we should have a Nor Cal race the week before State? Seems like a great way to settle this before State!

Kevin said...

ahhh I would be so excited to race that! I know tennis and wrestling at least have norcal finals, why not XC? This is actually a great idea, wish it had been thought of when I could still run it. I forsee people not wanting another high-stress race before state, which is a valid point. But I would still vote for it!

Anonymous said...

So, if someone wins by only a little bit, then they really didn't win, and the title should go to second place? How can you beat that logic?

Anonymous said...

They raced twice, but you see, no one said "game on," so it doesn't count.

Anonymous said...

Does the person who doesn't race still count as the winner because they beat them before?

Here's how it can happen said...

Time for a Nor Cal race!

I agree with Kevin, its is time to bring back Nor Cal. There is no reason not to!

Here is how you can do it:

1. Section determine enrollment to find section champions. Something very important to them.

2. The top schools from each division (5-6?) advance to the Nor Cal Championship at a rotating site, similar to Community College. One year at Shasta College, One year at Crystal, One year at Rocklin. Schools that qualify for Nor Cal are put into State determined CBEDS. So you may have run D3 in your section but if you are under 1250 you are D4.

3. Top schools advance to the State Championship no matter your section. Top 10 schools at Nor Cal advance. Southern California can also have a similar system knocking but advance 15. Yup, 25 schools on the line.

4. This will work, Southern CA would get more spots but they are more populous. Schools would be placed in State Standard CBEDS which would make it fair at the Nor Cal and state level and preserving the Section Championship.

Anonymous said...

A Norcal race is stupid. You have the rest of the country already making fun of California for doing poorly at NXN/Footlocker in general, this will just add to that.

Albert Caruana said...

Before we had the CA state xc meet in 1987, we did have a NorCal race.

Here is the link to the results of the 1983 race:
http://www.dyestatcal.com/ATHLETICS/XC/1983/norcal.htm

Anonymous said...

he's right guys. Garcia lost twice to the same person. she should be norcal runner of the year.

Coach Small said...

In response to the Nor Cal race, personally I think it is an interesting idea and something that could potentially be great for the sport. The logistics of such an event and the politics of changing the State CBEDs and qualifying will make it next to impossible however. But a great idea and one I would be excited to run as an athlete an now have my team run now as a coach.

In regards to the NXN meet I have to disagree with the comment above. The teams that qualify were all from the south that go through numerous qualifying rounds. To finish in the top 10 in the nation is outstanding considering our state meet is just one week before.

And on another note I don't think any system form the CIF should be designed to cater to an event like NXN, which qualifies only 2 teams in the state. We are looking to promote the sport and make it better for everyone, not just determine who the top 2 teams are to compete in a Nike Meet. If this was the true goal we would have an "open" division with the top 20 teams racing for the top 2 spots. Every section has come to a consensus that the goal is to determine division champions, not necessarily determine the true State Champion. Just look at the mess the State Bowl has created in football.

John said...

Agree with Coach Small. No way CIF should cater to NXN. However the way the current NXN system works is a joke. You can't have a true national championship if the CA selections are based on a power merge of 10 races that take place over a 5 hour time span.

Taking Coach Small's suggestion of an 'open' division one step further, Nike could move NXN back a week and go head to head with FL. The week after State they invite the top 20 teams at State (based on a power merge) to compete for the 2 spots at NXN. It's also an opportunity to crown a true 'open' CA State champ. New York has a similar set up with the New York State meet which is by divisions and then the Federation meet which is open.

Of course this set up means CA kids have to run an extra race before NXN....

Anonymous said...

Regarding a Nor Cal/So Cal and state meet, I agree with the post at 9:29, but I'll turn it around a bit. It's not a smart idea.

"Top schools advance to the State Championship no matter your section. Top 10 schools at Nor Cal advance. Southern California can also have a similar system knocking but advance 15. Yup, 25 schools on the line."

So 25 teams in the whole state? How many teams and individuals get the opportunity right now? I'm not going to add them up, but if we remember something pretty basic, it's about and for the kids, right? then we would abandon the idea of 25 teams.

On Friday I was asked by some mom where the best spectator area was. I gave her my opinion. She was beside herself with excitement. Their school hadn't made it to states since 2003. It opened my eyes to watch for this, just the pure joy kids had for being there. I heard a boy tell a teammate, "you know, it is a privilege to be here," another coach say, "He's only a sophomore. By the time he's a senior, he'll be here."

I think it is unfortunate enough that individual runners who may run a very respectable time do not qualify, while there are runners on teams running 8-minute miles. I would really hate to see us do anything to "advance the sport" that would greatly, greatly reduce opportunity for young people to participate in something they will remember for the rest of their lives.

Anonymous said...

I think the Nor Cal poster was suggesting the top 10 teams PER DIVISION advance.

You can even add teams to make it equivalent to the number of qualifying schools now. 12 schools? I am not sure the exact number but I am pretty sure that was just an example.

You can even make it so each section is guaranteed at least one spot at the State meet. But I am guessing if 12 schools per division advance I'm pretty sure each section would be represented.

It is possible, maybe not probable though.

Anonymous said...

does anyone else have any more points about the top norcal individuals....

Anonymous said...

It doesn't matter about the individual argument any more... Verdon was best regular season, Garcia peaked at FL.

Chuck's army wants Verdon, others Garcia. Up to Albert now.

For the boys it more Chuck's Army. If the emphasis is on the last 4 races (like it was last year) it is Mejyer. But Chuck's Army wants Joyce.

If its not be prepared for the Campolindo to cry about one of their own not being #1 or touting their superiority depending on how this goes.

As for the Nor Cal thing, great idea! It would get more kids to the post season... which in my opinion will be good for the sport, finances (lots of money is made at CCS and State) and will get more pub in local papers.

Who cares about the SS teams that run in NXN. NXN is a great idea but not a true national championship anyways.

Anonymous said...

Isn't all Norcal about the body of work. Runners have up and down days, fight injuries and in the end it's the durability and consistency that shows. Reward those who participated both in league, major invitationsals, sections, state and footlocker. I would take a 2nd ranked or 3rd runner with the whole package over a runner off the radar that then wins at State for the first time all year.

Anonymous said...

Girls:
1st Team All-NorCal:
Carrie Verdon - Runner of the year
Nikki Hiltz
Sarah Robinson
Anna Maxwell - Soph of the Year
Vanessa Fraser
Karlie Garcia - Junior of the Year
Julia Maxwell

Albert Caruana said...

Actually up to committee of voters now. Not just me.

Anonymous said...

Sarah Robinson was one of those who showed up at the end like the Mtn. View kid. You either count the last 4 as the only things that matter or you don't.

If Robinson is on the list Garcia is Runner of the Year. You can't have it both ways.

Anonymous said...

did myjer win CCS? if not then who beat him? It didn't seem like he did terribly well at NXN.

Anonymous said...

To Has too much time,
I think your rankings are off because you neglected to mention a single carlmont runner, all of who had exceptional season. They rolled over Bellarmine at CCS finals but then had a unusual bad race at state. there should be at least a few carlmont runners on your predictions.

Anonymous said...

Carrie Verdon should be runner of the year, how could Garcia get voted above her if Garcia never beat her? Although Garcia for sure is a very talented runner who def. deserves some sort of recognition

Anonymous said...

I have been told that D4 had by far the best conditions at the state meet of all the boys races. Can someone shed light on this?

hank said...

"did myjer win CCS? if not then who beat him? It didn't seem like he did terribly well at NXN."

Myjer won D2 (15:06) but had the 2nd fastest time of the day to Estifanos who won D1 (14:59).

hank

Anonymous said...

Myjer by far is #1 as is Garcia.

Garcia, State was 0.8 seconds and then crushed regionals and Nats. If someone didn't race then too bad so sad.

As for the Carlmont statement... "but then had a unusual bad race at state." that is not true. They always have a "bad race" at state. Every year that Carlmont beat Bellarmine they lose to them at State. Every year. So the unusual bad race theory doesn't add up.

Carlmont was great as a whole but no individual was on the same level as these other guys.

Anonymous said...

To the person who asked about the conditions for the D4 race. The first few races were still pretty cold though and the sun wasn't out. By the last few races it was actually warm! I had to take my jacket off and I was still warm - not the norm for the State meet. The first races definitely had better running weather - not that the later races were hot, just a lot warmer.

P.S. Before anyone starts slamming me for coming up with excuses, I did not write the previous comment. I am just telling you about the weather that day, since I remember begin amazed at how warm it was when the sun finally came out.

Anonymous said...

" Anonymous said...
I have been told that D4 had by far the best conditions at the state meet of all the boys races. Can someone shed light on this?"

Depends on what is your "best" condition. Quite frankly, I thought Girls D4 was best, about 53 degrees, and some of those girls posted best times. Girls D5 was still nice but I was starting to heat up moving to different vantage points. By Boys D4 it was a bit warmer, sun was up, jacket was off, but it was still good race weather.

has too much time said...

@ Anonymous 9:12, Carlmont had a good team of good runners, but I determined that none of them were good enough to make the list. Their bad state meet performance was a factor to being left out because the point of making states is to compete and not just participate. They have a history of showing up to participate and I don't believe that should be rewarded.

NCS Fan said...

Okay... hold on a second. Everyone can cool their jets about the Verdon Garcia thing. First of all, I believe we are looking for the "NorCal Runner of the YEAR", not "NorCal Runner of the last couple races". That being said, throughout the YEAR, who came out on top durring their bouts? Who won between the two of them at the most prestigious CIF sponsored xc meet? It bothers me when people bring up facts and figures that are biased. No, verdon did not race at FL. So that means Garcia did better than her at that race?? I dont believe we are saying that Verdon is better than Garcia because she won her league meet. FLN is post-post-season. it's an invitational. The bottom line is that Verdon beat Garcia in EVERY CIF sponsored race throught the whole YEAR. Therefore, TOP NorCal runner of the YEAR, goes to Verdon. And I dont appreciate the "Chuck's Army" comment. Oh, I'm sorry, Do you know of a more successful distance coach in NorCal who has been pumping out championship runners and teams over the last few years to the same extent as Chuck? it's not like people are biased towards campo kids...... What do you want them to do? stop doing well for a couple seasons so they can make a comeback? come on. Verdon gets it over Garcia simply because she beat her in every race they had together, all through the post-season. It's not like verdon stopped racing halfway through the regular season. she opted out of an invitational. And on an ending note, saying that Garcia was "doing all the work" at the state meet is ridiculous. sweet, she was leading. by alot at one point. and wanna bet that Chuck wasnt peeing himself with nerves? Garcia was far enough ahead so its not like she was cutting the wind for anyone. she did just as much work as Carrie except for the fact that Verdon closed 5 seconds faster. Did you see their faces coming down the straightaway?? look at the pictures! who was hurting more?? Verdon looks calm cool and collected while Garcia LOOKS like she has been leading the whole race and can see the state title slipping away from her. Not to sound harsh. They are both fantastic runners and it's great that we have them in NorCal. But Verdon wins.

Anonymous said...

Dear NCS Fan (AKA a member of Chucks Army).

Many other coaches have been successful the past few years, have you heard of a high school named University?

Also, the standards keep changing. Last year FL was all that mattered, this year its not. That is the problem. Verdon is a great runner and well deserving but the poster above said it right. If Garcia won Nationals would she still not be Nor Cal Runner of the year.

I know you are biased and yes Chuck does a good job at a program that has a history of success. I always laugh at comments like that. I don't see these great coaches going to bottom feeder programs and being successful. And I don't know Chuck but any good coach will tell you that you are only as good as your talent (though good coaches who care certainly help).

Don't count 'em, do count 'em, Albert just needs to make it clear. Personally I say FL doesn't count and it should be Verdon. So yes, if Garcia wins footlocker it doesn't count. But you sure better have those same standard next year too.

Albert Caruana said...

There are obviously valid points for both runners and it's not an open and shut case for either runner.

The same goes for the boys.

Anonymous said...

Here is a football take on this situation. Let's say Green Bay Packers go undefeated in the season. Then gets upset in the first round or does not go on to the playoffs. The 49ers with a couple losses go on to win the superbowl. Now, who is the better team? The Superbowl Champ. Go Niners.

Anonymous said...

The football analogy is very good.Aaron Rodgers gets injured and the Packers don't advance.They are viewed by all as the best team in the league but circumstances arose that stopped them from being Super Bowl Champs.
Garcia was recently chosen as one of eight Adidas All-Americans.Was Verdon on the list?No.She wasn't on the list because she was unable to compete at FL.
Albert....you should move this back to the top.Will get many hits over the holidays.

hank said...

To NCS Fan - remember, it is "Top NorCal runner of the Year", not "Top CIF NorCal Runner of the Year". So if some of the committee feels that FLW & FL should count more, so be it.

To Anonymous - "Last year FL was all that mattered", this is not so. As the Facilitator, I get to look at all the votes and not one person's votes used only Footlocker to decide how they ranked everyone. Yes, some voters did include FL where others didn't use it at all so saying that "FL was all the mattered" is an incorrect statement, please give the committee members the benefit of a doubt.

Also, Albert does not decide on the voting guidelines, no one does.

The votes are due the 21st so you have 5 more days to debate and give us your input. All of the committee members know of this thread, I don't know if they're reading it but they know of it.

hank

Anonymous said...

The football analogy is a good one except Footlocker would be equivilent to the Pro Bowl not the Superbowl. The Superbowl would be the State Championships where Verdon beat Garcia. On top of that she won during the regular season. It's a shame Verdon couldn't make it to the Pro Bowl but that's the breaks. I definitely think the football analogy works. Congrats to both runners on great seasons!

Anonymous said...

"Did you see their faces coming down the straightaway?? look at the pictures! who was hurting more?? Verdon looks calm cool and collected while Garcia LOOKS like she has been leading the whole race and can see the state title slipping away from her. "

NCS Fan, that's a ridiculous argument. First of all, it doesn't matter if someone looks good or bad when they're closing, all that matters is how they're racing. If Verdon had a gargoyle pain face on, she simply would have looked the part of an athlete laying down a ridiculous kick. And secondly, Verdon always has an abnormally collected demeanor; I'm pretty sure she is incapable of expressing emotion.

Anonymous said...

There's no "Chuck's Army". Chuck Woolridge is hands down the best coach in the state. Joyce and Verdon would be nothing without him.

Albert Caruana said...

Thank you all for the comments. I believe you have all made your points and now it's time to shut down this thread.