Friday, July 21, 2017

Unofficial mile world record set at Los Gatos All Comer meet

You can check out the article which includes the video of Jeremy Kain's 4:36.8 mile at this LINK. Kain is just 12 years old.

33 comments:

Anonymous said...

Don't know why it wasn't posted but this kid is a big recruit for local teams. A Scotts Valley resident, Bell's Alex Scales paced him. Los Gatos wants him to use a family members address. Good to see so much hype for the kid.

Anonymous said...

I'm not sure you should read too much into the Scales or the Los Gatos HS connections. They are on the same Los Gatos club team so it is natural that teammates would help each other.

Anonymous said...

Why is it so hard for the LGAC results to ever be posted anywhere. Seriously they have something on the LGAC website every season that says they will put the results there but I can't remember the last time they had it. The Lynbrook site also fails to post them many times. They havent had any for this summer
Is there really any more to it other than just uploading the text file.

Hank said...

One cannot post something that one does not get, just sayin'.

hank

Menlo XC/Track Coach said...

Great for Jeremy! That's pretty insane...Again, there is so much local talent here in NorCal on the distance side which is so awesome. As coaches, we need to step it up and actually take care to develop such talent.

In regards to recruiting, I don't know about you guys, BUT RECRUITING IS NOT ALLOWED...even if you mention it here it's uncool.

In regards to Lynbrook site...Hank already answered that question...Hank's site is one of the most comprehensive sites around, plus he does an amazing job timing as well. Thank you Hank!!!!

Again, wherever Jeremy goes, good luck to him and his HS Team...

Best wishes to everyone in the upcoming Fall HS XC Season! Can't wait to see a lot of you out there...Cheers! #gorun1

Anonymous said...

@Hank, then it is not your fault surely. The meet director or whoever should be releasing the results.

Anonymous said...

Son of Pete Kain, the triathlete?

Albert Caruana said...

I believe that is his son.

Rob Collins said...

Jeremy is the son of Pete and Shari Kain, the Triathletes and his sister is Jessica Kain at Scotts Valley.

Anonymous said...

@Menlo coach
So we should stick our heads into the sand and ignore illegal recruiting? How these high school coaches and posters here know what private school they are going to is a sign there is a problem. By rule coaches shouldn't know who is on the team until the first day of school. Now schools are out there recruiting 7th graders. That's what's not cool, not the fact it is mentioned here.

Anonymous said...

@8:00am I think incoming freshmen can run with their team over the summer. The only league I have heard of that restricts access like that is the WCAL. Please correct me if that is wrong. With regard to knowing where a kid is going before the first day of school, this is a very small community and the kids talk to each other so we will almost always know, especially about the elite kids. Given the new rule allowing kids to change schools for athletic reasons, I think "recruiting" should be allowed and encouraged. How else is a kid going to know if a coach is a good fit or not unless you are allowed to talk with them. I think allowing contact and recruiting would help avoid a lot of unnecessary and potentially damaging transfers in the future.

Anonymous said...

For what it's worth:

"510 Pre-Enrollment Contact Affidavit - Please note that parents, students, AD's, principals and coaches should read all statements carefully to insure you are accurately signing these statements. All pre-enrollment contact of any nature, must be disclosed so that NCS can determine the nature of the contact within the context of the language of CIF Bylaw 510. All parties are also encouraged to read CIF Bylaw 202 - Accurate Information. Failure to accurately disclose any information may cause a student-athlete to be ineligible for up to two-years and bring sanctions upon the enrolling school."

Situation: "Direct contact with Middle School students: phone, email, letters, social media, etc.

May: "Contact after they have finished with middle school and are enrolled at your school.

May Not: "Coaches cannot contact middle school students."

Situation: "Parents of prospective students; incoming 9th graders or potential transfer students, contacting a high school coach to get information on the school’s sports program and/or information on how to transfer schools

May: "Refer all parents to the school administration; athletic director, assistant principal of athletics, etc. for information on specific sports programs and/or transfer information with no additional comments

May Not: "Speak directly with parents, or meet parents of students who are not currently attending your school. The only appropriate response, verbal or written, is that you may not address their questions and refer them to the proper school
administrator."

High School coaches should not be talking to a 7th grader at all about their athletic program. Even introducing yourself as, "Hi, I am the cross-county Coach XYZ High School, and I want to tell you good job," can be construed as undue influence. There will be those who argue it is not, and they should talk to school programs that are on probation for doing just that.

Anonymous said...

So, aside from leagues that have a rule against it (WCAL is the only I know of), incoming freshmen can run with their HS team in the summer after their last day of MS. I suppose that coaches will know who these kids are either through admissions or through direct contact which is allowed once the kid is finished with MS. That should put that to bed. It looks like any contact before their last day of MS, aside from what college coaches call "meet and greet" is not allowed. Good rules for the era before allowing athletically motivated transfers. If you can talk with coaches at other schools and switch when you are in 10th, 11th, 12th, why not allow a rising freshman contact with a coach to see if it is a good fit?

Anonymous said...

How do the rules apply to high school coaches who are also club coaches? I assume it is not against the rules for a club coach to "recruit" middle school students to train and run with their club?

Anonymous said...

Aren't there coaches who coach both high school and club teams?

Once a Coach said...

"Meet and greets" are against the rules. There are no sign up lists in summer from a district (unless posted in school loop). What part of no talking to athletes until after MS is hard to understand? There is a provision that a club can not be used to circumvent the rules. But we know that is not enforced, even in higher profile sports. Seriously, it's impossible to keep up as a coach without cheating now days. Just one of the reasons I don't coach anymore.

Anonymous said...

Again, the rules should be changed to allow coaches to talk with the kids if they want. More choices for kids is better, not worse. You might find a kid who was looking at a Bellermine or SI could go to their local public school instead if they get a chance to talk with the coach and find out there are some remarkable coaches in the public schools (PSP at Gunn, Sealy at Homestead, etc.).

Anonymous said...

@ 6:48 is correct. There is very little to no enforcement. If you connect the many dots, it would appear the clubs are used to circumvent the rules all the time. The club parents, athletes, and coaches do the recruiting, set up shadow days and applications. Probably financial aid to those who need it too. To think encouraging a young athlete at a junior high to continue running, or talking to younger siblings of runners already on your team is considered undue influence. I'm sure you'd find plenty of undue influence if you heard a conversation between parents and athletes at a local club practice or trip. How about when local standout high school runners show up to support their club teammates at junior high school races decked out in their high school gear? I've seen it plenty of times. We had a standout runner at our local junior high who had to be told by his 8th grade coach that he wasn't allowed to wear a private high school uniform shirt to 8th grade track practice.

Anonymous said...

@Once a Coach .... "What part of no talking to athletes until after MS is hard to understand?"

I am not familiar with the exact CIF regulations on this subject, and was not able to find it on a quick search online. There are more than one high school coach that also coaches a club team. There are middle school athletes, and younger, on these clubs. If the rule is there are absolutely no talking to MS kids by a high school coach, then they can't even coach them on the club. I am curious what are the exact rules that covers this?

Anonymous said...

Clearly club coaches, even if they are HS coaches, can talk to anyone they want without penalty to the school or the kid. The evidence is clear since there has never been a penalty for this type of contact, and there most definitely should not be. It is hard enough for MS kids to find good coaching. We should not be stopping good HS coaches from coaching a club in the summer. Kids need more choices, not fewer.

Anonymous said...

As the parent of a good middle school runner at a very small school without adequate coaching, I can tell you that we picked a club team because the coach had a great reputation for developing talent and not overworking the kids. He also happened to be the coach of a local HS team. It is ludicrous to say that he could not coach my kid (or even talk with him) because he coached at a HS that we may or may not have ever considered going to. If recruiting is prohibited, then prohibit recruiting, not coaching. There are so many MS kids who need expert coaching that denying them contact with our better coaches is what should be prohibited. Just saying.

Anonymous said...

The rules are clear. In CCS anyway a club coach can not recruit from their club. Even teammates, parents, friends, etc. count as representatives of the school. It is difficult to enforce equally and equitably so it is a battle the CCS office does not want to engage in. Just because you get away with speeding doesn't mean it's not against the law. It's a juvenile thought that because you didn't get caught it is ok. It's not.

And yes, coaches have been reprimanded for this in the past though not if late. In reality coaches need to be ethical and follow the rules. I think if a kid is being recruited illegally it is an ego boost for the parents. But in the end you are running for an unethical coach and if they are willing to break the rules to win and you think your kid is nothing more than a pawn and won't hesitate to run you into the ground in the name of being a champion you are mistaken. Take a hard look at "elite" club coaches and you will see majority of these kids get injured. Of course you only see the 1 or 2 winners and not the carnage along the way.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for some of the clarifications. It seems the blanket statement "no talking to athletes until after MS" is not completely absolute. A Club coach who also is a High School Coach can talk to MS athletes in the context of the club, and train them within the purview of the club, but just no discussions about High School or anything that can be construed as recruiting for the High School. Does that seem correct? It would be great is someone can point to the exact by-laws that govern this.

Albert Caruana said...

CCS Bylaws
http://cifccs.org/governance/constitution-_bylaws_and_policies

Anonymous said...

"How do the rules apply to high school coaches who are also club coaches? I assume it is not against the rules for a club coach to "recruit" middle school students to train and run with their club?"

This is addressed in your section constitution and bylaws. A club coach who is also a high school coach IS subject to all of the bylaws. While he/she may "recruit" to the club, he/she is prohibited from promoting their school or answering questions about their athletic program. What they can do is refer the athlete to the school principal who can answer questions about the school.

"Again, the rules should be changed to allow coaches to talk with the kids if they want. More choices for kids is better, not worse. You might find a kid who was looking at a Bellermine or SI could go to their local public school instead if they get a chance to talk with the coach and find out there are some remarkable coaches in the public schools (PSP at Gunn, Sealy at Homestead, etc.)."

This is a convincing argument as to why we do have rules pertaining to undue influence. The young person is a student first and should make decisions free from athletic pressure. The remarkable coach's programs speak for themselves and people are typically already aware of successful athletic programs.

"Seriously, it's impossible to keep up as a coach without cheating now days. Just one of the reasons I don't coach anymore."

Really? It's impossible to coach without cheating?? What's so impossible about integrity, just doing your job, following the rules? I don't find it impossible at all. I coach and let the administrators take care of the rest.

Regarding comments about no enforcement, there is enforcement. What there is not is reporting. While you will hear blanket statements like, "Well, everybody's doing it (referring to some vague rule violation)," what is lacking is the reporting of that violation. Once a violation is reported, it will be investigated and a decision will be rendered.

"Clearly club coaches, even if they are HS coaches, can talk to anyone they want without penalty to the school or the kid." Depends on what they are talking about, but if they are talking about their school athletic program, that is a violation and should be reported.

"The evidence is clear since there has never been a penalty for this type of contact, and there most definitely should not be." There are penalties. Research your section's bylaws.

"It is ludicrous to say that he could not coach my kid (or even talk with him) because he coached at a HS that we may or may not have ever considered going to. If recruiting is prohibited, then prohibit recruiting, not coaching." The high school coach is not prohibited from coaching at a club. They just have to be careful, but if a high school coach is coaching at School A and a student from School B joins his club and later transfers to School A, that is prima facie evidence of undue influence. I know an excellent club coach who has declined to coach high school on multiple occasions because it is such a hard rope to walk and he just feels it is too difficult to do so.

Coaches have to follow the rules, and if there is any particular rule or bylaw that they don't like, the recourse is not to "cheat" and violate it, but to seek to have it changed.

Albert posted a link to CCS's Constitution and Bylaws. They are also available for other sections on their section website. Look 'em up and read them! They are only 130 to 150 pages long! But just search key words. You'll find what you're looking for.

Anonymous said...

Coaches should be allowed to recruit, whether they have a club team or not. The kids should come first, period.

Albert Caruana said...

Shame that a post about a 12 year old running a 4:36 mile has progressed to silly talk about recruiting. Coaches know the rules and the ones with morals don't break them.

Anonymous said...

Running has to be the only sport that laments young talent and hard work in MS. I, for one, celebrate these young athletes and hope for more so we can finally put a dent in the SS domination. As far as the club vs HS coaching thing, everyone just has to get over it. We need to develop these kids and coaching is one of the key components.

Coach Tim said...

@7:54 - The kids coming first is exactly why there are rules against recruiting. When you look across all sports, across the entire state (and especially across history) there are plenty of unethical coaches who would/do use undue influence to bolster their own/their program's reputation and results. While it's probably true these coaches form only a tiny, tiny minority, the system has deemed them problem enough to legislate against them.

Generally when you're dealing with rules governing schoolchildren, if on first glance it doesn't seem to be protecting the kids, there's probably a case (even if a very, very edge case) you haven't considered yet.

Anonymous said...

Coach Tim, I think coaches answering questions from rising freshmen is the only way to see if a school would be a good fit. How many miles will I run per week, how many meets will we do, can I go to footlocker or other outside meets, etc? How else would a kid know what is expected and what they would be allowed to do? I agree that coaches should not be allowed to call or otherwise bother a kid, but allowing contact for philosophy and expectation setting should be allowed.

Menlo XC/Track Coach said...

Wow...I agree with Coach Car, this post was about a MS kid kicking butt and we should celebrate that which I did with my original post, along with celebrating many local young talents in the past, present, and hopefully future too! Again, there is so much insane talent here in NorCal and it's our DUTY as coaches to develop those talents for those kids, not to make us look good but for them...Yes, it is about them, NOT US! As a local relatively new HS coach, I just blows my mind of the LOCAL DISTANCE TALENT there is here that I just can't help to cheer for kids like Cooper Teare, Alex Scales, Mari Friedman, Luis Grijalva, to name a few...even if these kids are racing against your HS team, it's just awesome to watch them KICK ASS.

Think about this, by a HS coach constantly RECRUITING talent just shows about the coach themselves.

I too am a club coach and I don't go to the talented kids to recruit them; their parents usually come to me asking about the club and I always take kids who WANT to be there and working hard during the summer NO MATTER THE TALENT LEVEL.

@ Menlo School I'm very fortunate to get kids who loves sports thus my staff tries our best to develop those kids into great runners...Maddy Price was a soccer/basketball player and now she's an amazing runner @ Duke, Lizzie Lacy was definitely an amazing soccer player (she even helped our team win league in MS along with CCS in HS!!!) and was Footlocker Nationals 10th place, Robert Miranda is an insane ultimate frisbee club player (yup, I bet many of you didn't know that lol) and continuing to do great things; and the story about these kids all sound very similar...great athletes, found the joy of running = successful runners (including our JV runners too!) Again, I don't use these kids as examples for my list of great athletes that we've coached...but I use it as an example for HS coaches to COACH who you get and if helping kids to discover the JOY of Running/Racing is your passion...GREAT SUCCESS will naturally follow REGARDLESS. We follow rules because we are role models to these kids & that's why recruiting is not ok.

I know this may sound naive to many, but that's the way my staff and I do it. We may never win CCS titles or State Championships, but we try our best to have kids win in their own way, and we mean EVERY KID (even kids who are just out there earning their HS PE credit.)

Sorry again for the long post and I'll get off the soap box now...Thanks for listening & best wishes to all the kids running this Fall. We are all excited to see how everyone does and will be cheering for all the LOCAL TALENT! THIS IS OUR SPORT & it's getting really exciting! :)

Anonymous said...

This ain't college. Even this kid will likely peak out4:15-4:20. He may or may not ever win a CCs title. Probably won't get more than books in college and be coached privately or likely by his Dad. At least where I'm from the kid has to go to the school which boundaries they are in. They can request a transfer but not for athletic reasons. If they do so after talking to a coach it's 1-2 years sitting out. It's not worth it.

This whole thing is disheartening. The idea of shopping around for a coach or program. But I guess that's what it takes to win no days. Parents keep chasing that scholarship that's not there. I hate to say it but no matter what the coach says or how much club money you pay, odds are you're not making the Olympics & not getting a full ride.

Anonymous said...

As a parent of a kid in the 4:15-4:20 range, I can tell you that college coaches are interested at that level. You may only get books, but having a college coach help you get into a school you may not otherwise get into is even more valuable than a full ride (which we all know is almost nonexistent in XC/track). I agree with a lot of the previous posts regarding kids having access to HS coaches to at least answer questions about their program. It seems like a simple thing to allow kids to make a choice between the local public school or some of the fine private schools in our area partly based on the fit of the running program. The kids should be able to have a choice. I also agree with the Menlo coach that it is an incredible time to be a NorCal distance fan. I can't wait to get the season started to watch our talented kids show what they have!

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