Monday, December 02, 2019

NCS vs CCS at the state meet

A few years ago, NCS adjusted its divisions to better match up with the rest of the state (mostly SS) at the California state meet. CCS has continued to use the same divisional breakdowns with an even amount of teams in each division. You can view the CBEDS at these links:

CCS Boys:
CCS Girls:

Here are the results from this past state meet comparing the two sections. I am curious as to what people see when they look at the following results. I know NCS has always been strong in Division V so having that many teams do well at state is par for the course. With having only 8 teams in Division I, NCS is able to keep their 2 auto qualifiers and move teams to divisions that they can compete fairly at the state meet. I know in CCS, we have teams that don't belong in Division I (size-wise) but because the divisions are divided equally, most CCS schools go up against much larger schools at the state meet which does make a difference. Anyways, have it. Would love to hear your thoughts.

Division I Girls
CCS                                            NCS
Palo Alto HS-8th                        Dougherty Valley 11
Gunn HS-20th .                          Amador Valley 13

Division I Boys                                     
Bellarmine 3                               Dublin 4
Los Altos 16                               Amador Valley 8

Division II Girls
St. Francis 2                                Granada 14
Willow Glen 15                           Redwood 17
Lynbrook 22                                Monte Vista 19
                                                    San Ramon Valley 21

Division II Boys
Willow Glen 11                          Granada 7           
St. Francis 16                              De La Salle 9
Lynbrook 22                                Monte Vista 17
                                                     Liberty 23
Division III Girls
St. Ignatius 15                            Campolindo 1
Sacred Heart Cathedral 21         Alameda 8
                                                   Tamalpais 11
                                                   Maria Carrillo 13

Division III Boys
Sacred Heart Cathedral 20 .      Campolindo 1
St. Ignatius 21                           Maria Carrillo 2
                                                  Tamalpais 14
                                                  Casa Grande 15

Division IV Girls
Menlo 2                                    Piedmont 11
Sacred Heart Prep 14 .             Miramonte 12
Half Moon Bay 16                   Bishop O'Dowd 18

Division IV Boys
Scotts Valley 2                         Sir Francis Drake 3
King City 5                              Acalanes 13
Menlo 15                                 Bishop O'Dowd 19

Division V Girls
Castilleja 5                              Lick-Wilmerding 1
Crystal Springs Uplands 10    University 2
Nueva 15                                 Head Royce 6
                                                Urban 7
                                                Stuart Hall 16
                                                Marin Academy 18

Division V Boys
Crystal Springs Uplands 7      University 4
Priory 15                                 Lick-Wilmerding 10
St. Francis CC 19                   Head-Royce 12
                                               Stuart Hall 14
                                               St. Joseph Notre Dame 17


Anonymous said...

CCS has to be open to adjusting its divisions to be equitable to the rest of the State especially SS. If we want to start somewhere, we should begin with D5 by moving it up to 600 like the rest of the State as Patrick talked about in his interview a while back here. This year in CCS, D5 Girls only had 6 teams racing and the boys 8 teams only.

I also believe St Francis would be a D3 school and I'm sure them along with others who move down to D3 would do some serious damage at State (after Campolindo). And no disrespect to Lick from NCS but Menlo School Girls would've won D5 State by quite a margin if the CCS divisions were equal to the rest of the State as is NCS.

Regardless a great showing by CCS especially in D4 with both Scotts Valley boys and Menlo School girls runner-ups and King City boys 5th. And St Francis finishing 2nd at State was impressive as well since again they would've been a D3 school based on enrollment and might've given Campolindo a run for the State Title.

Anonymous said...

Great year for CCS, but year but I'd go with NCS year in year out.

Anonymous said...

I think you forgot to include the Granada Boys team in Div II (they placed 7th)

Anonymous said...

Forgot Granada boys 7th div. 2 & Monte Vista girls 19th div. 2 from NCS on your comparison. I am an NCS guy but strongly believe if CCS adjusted their divisions closer to what NCS does, they would be even better in div. 2-5. & would pick up more state slots in the process. I have always believed a school should compete with other schools closer to their size. CCS would take a beating in div. 1 (other than Bellermine) but no different than NCS has (until the emergence of Dublin} which makes this years performance at state that more impressive.

Albert Caruana said...

Added both teams. Thank you for catching those two ommissions.

Anonymous said...

Agee that for the benefit of the students, adjusting CCS divisions to be more in alignment with what NCS has done. What league is willing to step up and make that proposal at Tuesday's CCS Season evaluation meeting?

Anonymous said...

If you look at the CCS qualifiers this year and compare to the NCS division break down, Bellarmine, St. Ignatius, Sacred Heart Prep, Half Moon Bay, King City, Scotts Valley and the current d5s stay in their current divisions. Everyone else moves down. That can make the other divisions more competitive and possibly bring more state qualifying spots to CCS if they perform well in Fresno. That's a win for the CCS overall don't you think?

Interesting cascading effect if you look back at CCS results...
D1 Boys: Bellarmine and Homestead would still advance.
D1 Girls: Alisal, San Benito would advance with Gunn and Palo Alto going to D2
D2 Boys: Los Altos moves down into D2 from D1. Who gets the other D2 Boys spots as Willow Glen, St. Francis, Lynbrook move to d3.
D2 Girls: Palo Alto and Gunn move down into D2 from D1. Who gets the other D2 Girls spot as Willow Glen, St. Francis, Lynbrook move to D3.
D3 Boys and Girls: St. Ignatius stays, while Sacred Heart Cathedral moves to d4. D3 gets much more competitive with Willow Glen, St. Francis, Lynbrook moving down. Maybe CCS picks up another qualifying spot to state?
D4: Sacred Heart Cathedral moves in and Menlo moves to D5. D4 probably stays just as competitive.
D5: Menlo moves down and D5 gets more competitive too. Depending on how teams do at state, could pick up another qualifying spot.

Anonymous said...

How are the number of state berth per section determined?. I read there is a four year criteria, but does anyone know the actual formula

Steph M said...

I agree with adjusting the divisions as mentioned above. This was discussed briefly at the SCVAL post-season meeting but no consensus was reached so we didn't create a proposal to take to CCS. We were told that CCS wants to keep the section meet highly competitive in all divisions even if that means we are weaker at the State level. But it does seem to be getting harder to compete against the huge SS schools. The Los Altos boys broke our school record each year for the past three years and yet went from placing 10th in 2017 to 12th in 2018 and then 16th in 2019. The faster we get, the worse we place! I realize conditions were perfect and times a little faster this year but that's still a big drop. I fear we may now lose that 3rd boys team spot in D1 next year:(

Albert Caruana said...

It's based on top 10 finishes over the last four years. More top 10 finishes gives you the opportunity to keep or gain more spots. Less or no top 10 finishes means you may lose spots. As long as there are at least 8 schools in a division, that section gets a minimum of two teams. This is why you have 8 teams in NCS division 1.

Anonymous said...

CCS was better in everything but D3. But there were years when D3 was just as competitive, such as when Aptos (and now Santa Cruz) were state contenders. But D3 is just weak, nothing you can do about that. But everything else is superior. There is clearly no advantage to switching divisions and I like the divisions the way they are.

Anonymous said...

Divisions are an interesting thing. On one side, size of schools matter. On another you have individuals qualifying and competing at state when school size has no relevance, as seen this year with the top 3 girls spread throughout D1, D2 & D3. You have a girl run 18:33 stay home because they are at a big school yet another individual make state over a minute slower because they go to a small private school. Makes no sense.

Anonymous said...

San Diego's Divisions and explanation

San Joaquin

Walt Lange said...

The much anticipated 2019 State Meet Fantasy has been uploaded here:
The annual Fantasy envisions a state meet with teams in divisions based purely on enrollment. Division placement at the Section meets is irrelevant. This is the system used by most Sections at their own level but applied to the State meet. The Clovis Invitational at Woodward Park employed the system in 2019.

Just some of the changes with this system:

Newbury Park HS moves up a division.
Loyola HS moves up a division and drops 3 places.
Ridgeview HS moves up a division and drops 4 places.
Central HS in the Central Section moves up two divisions and drops 11 places.
Lowell HS moves up 3 divisions and drops 13 places.

Agoura HS moves up 1 division, drops 5 places.
Royal: up 1, down 7.
Chico: up 1, down 8.
Moorpark: up 1, down 7
Arroyo, up 1, down 6.

Willow Glen: down 1, up 8, now on the podium
Sir Francis Drake, up 1, down 1 and off the podium
Laguna Beach up 3 and on the podium

The game has some flaws—it’s based on team times, not all divisions are the same size (24,24,24, then 23,23).

Not surprsingly, some sections place significantly better in the Fantasy version than in the Reality version.

Popular Posts