A few years ago, NCS adjusted its divisions to better match up with the rest of the state (mostly SS) at the California state meet. CCS has continued to use the same divisional breakdowns with an even amount of teams in each division. You can view the CBEDS at these links:
NCS: https://d2o2figo6ddd0g.cloudfront.net/1/e/po1tjxslib7ird/19_XCountry.pdf
CCS Boys: https://d2o2figo6ddd0g.cloudfront.net/r/d/peh6xliu8unlqi/18-19_CBEDS_for_2019__boys_cross_country.pdf
CCS Girls: https://d2o2figo6ddd0g.cloudfront.net/j/n/8r9uy43pylpc0j/18-19_CBEDS_for_2019_girls_cross_country.pdf
Here are the results from this past state meet comparing the two sections. I am curious as to what people see when they look at the following results. I know NCS has always been strong in Division V so having that many teams do well at state is par for the course. With having only 8 teams in Division I, NCS is able to keep their 2 auto qualifiers and move teams to divisions that they can compete fairly at the state meet. I know in CCS, we have teams that don't belong in Division I (size-wise) but because the divisions are divided equally, most CCS schools go up against much larger schools at the state meet which does make a difference. Anyways, have it. Would love to hear your thoughts.
Division I Girls
CCS NCS
Palo Alto HS-8th Dougherty Valley 11
Gunn HS-20th . Amador Valley 13
Division I Boys
Bellarmine 3 Dublin 4
Los Altos 16 Amador Valley 8
Division II Girls
St. Francis 2 Granada 14
Willow Glen 15 Redwood 17
Lynbrook 22 Monte Vista 19
San Ramon Valley 21
Division II Boys
Willow Glen 11 Granada 7
St. Francis 16 De La Salle 9
Lynbrook 22 Monte Vista 17
Liberty 23
Division III Girls
St. Ignatius 15 Campolindo 1
Sacred Heart Cathedral 21 Alameda 8
Tamalpais 11
Maria Carrillo 13
Division III Boys
Sacred Heart Cathedral 20 . Campolindo 1
St. Ignatius 21 Maria Carrillo 2
Tamalpais 14
Casa Grande 15
Division IV Girls
Menlo 2 Piedmont 11
Sacred Heart Prep 14 . Miramonte 12
Half Moon Bay 16 Bishop O'Dowd 18
Division IV Boys
Scotts Valley 2 Sir Francis Drake 3
King City 5 Acalanes 13
Menlo 15 Bishop O'Dowd 19
Division V Girls
Castilleja 5 Lick-Wilmerding 1
Crystal Springs Uplands 10 University 2
Nueva 15 Head Royce 6
Urban 7
Stuart Hall 16
Marin Academy 18
Division V Boys
Crystal Springs Uplands 7 University 4
Priory 15 Lick-Wilmerding 10
St. Francis CC 19 Head-Royce 12
Stuart Hall 14
St. Joseph Notre Dame 17
NCS: https://d2o2figo6ddd0g.cloudfront.net/1/e/po1tjxslib7ird/19_XCountry.pdf
CCS Boys: https://d2o2figo6ddd0g.cloudfront.net/r/d/peh6xliu8unlqi/18-19_CBEDS_for_2019__boys_cross_country.pdf
CCS Girls: https://d2o2figo6ddd0g.cloudfront.net/j/n/8r9uy43pylpc0j/18-19_CBEDS_for_2019_girls_cross_country.pdf
Here are the results from this past state meet comparing the two sections. I am curious as to what people see when they look at the following results. I know NCS has always been strong in Division V so having that many teams do well at state is par for the course. With having only 8 teams in Division I, NCS is able to keep their 2 auto qualifiers and move teams to divisions that they can compete fairly at the state meet. I know in CCS, we have teams that don't belong in Division I (size-wise) but because the divisions are divided equally, most CCS schools go up against much larger schools at the state meet which does make a difference. Anyways, have it. Would love to hear your thoughts.
Division I Girls
CCS NCS
Palo Alto HS-8th Dougherty Valley 11
Gunn HS-20th . Amador Valley 13
Division I Boys
Bellarmine 3 Dublin 4
Los Altos 16 Amador Valley 8
Division II Girls
St. Francis 2 Granada 14
Willow Glen 15 Redwood 17
Lynbrook 22 Monte Vista 19
San Ramon Valley 21
Division II Boys
Willow Glen 11 Granada 7
St. Francis 16 De La Salle 9
Lynbrook 22 Monte Vista 17
Liberty 23
Division III Girls
St. Ignatius 15 Campolindo 1
Sacred Heart Cathedral 21 Alameda 8
Tamalpais 11
Maria Carrillo 13
Division III Boys
Sacred Heart Cathedral 20 . Campolindo 1
St. Ignatius 21 Maria Carrillo 2
Tamalpais 14
Casa Grande 15
Division IV Girls
Menlo 2 Piedmont 11
Sacred Heart Prep 14 . Miramonte 12
Half Moon Bay 16 Bishop O'Dowd 18
Division IV Boys
Scotts Valley 2 Sir Francis Drake 3
King City 5 Acalanes 13
Menlo 15 Bishop O'Dowd 19
Division V Girls
Castilleja 5 Lick-Wilmerding 1
Crystal Springs Uplands 10 University 2
Nueva 15 Head Royce 6
Urban 7
Stuart Hall 16
Marin Academy 18
Division V Boys
Crystal Springs Uplands 7 University 4
Priory 15 Lick-Wilmerding 10
St. Francis CC 19 Head-Royce 12
Stuart Hall 14
St. Joseph Notre Dame 17
14 comments:
CCS has to be open to adjusting its divisions to be equitable to the rest of the State especially SS. If we want to start somewhere, we should begin with D5 by moving it up to 600 like the rest of the State as Patrick talked about in his interview a while back here. This year in CCS, D5 Girls only had 6 teams racing and the boys 8 teams only.
I also believe St Francis would be a D3 school and I'm sure them along with others who move down to D3 would do some serious damage at State (after Campolindo). And no disrespect to Lick from NCS but Menlo School Girls would've won D5 State by quite a margin if the CCS divisions were equal to the rest of the State as is NCS.
Regardless a great showing by CCS especially in D4 with both Scotts Valley boys and Menlo School girls runner-ups and King City boys 5th. And St Francis finishing 2nd at State was impressive as well since again they would've been a D3 school based on enrollment and might've given Campolindo a run for the State Title.
Great year for CCS, but year but I'd go with NCS year in year out.
I think you forgot to include the Granada Boys team in Div II (they placed 7th)
Forgot Granada boys 7th div. 2 & Monte Vista girls 19th div. 2 from NCS on your comparison. I am an NCS guy but strongly believe if CCS adjusted their divisions closer to what NCS does, they would be even better in div. 2-5. & would pick up more state slots in the process. I have always believed a school should compete with other schools closer to their size. CCS would take a beating in div. 1 (other than Bellermine) but no different than NCS has (until the emergence of Dublin} which makes this years performance at state that more impressive.
Added both teams. Thank you for catching those two ommissions.
Agee that for the benefit of the students, adjusting CCS divisions to be more in alignment with what NCS has done. What league is willing to step up and make that proposal at Tuesday's CCS Season evaluation meeting?
If you look at the CCS qualifiers this year and compare to the NCS division break down, Bellarmine, St. Ignatius, Sacred Heart Prep, Half Moon Bay, King City, Scotts Valley and the current d5s stay in their current divisions. Everyone else moves down. That can make the other divisions more competitive and possibly bring more state qualifying spots to CCS if they perform well in Fresno. That's a win for the CCS overall don't you think?
Interesting cascading effect if you look back at CCS results...
D1 Boys: Bellarmine and Homestead would still advance.
D1 Girls: Alisal, San Benito would advance with Gunn and Palo Alto going to D2
D2 Boys: Los Altos moves down into D2 from D1. Who gets the other D2 Boys spots as Willow Glen, St. Francis, Lynbrook move to d3.
D2 Girls: Palo Alto and Gunn move down into D2 from D1. Who gets the other D2 Girls spot as Willow Glen, St. Francis, Lynbrook move to D3.
D3 Boys and Girls: St. Ignatius stays, while Sacred Heart Cathedral moves to d4. D3 gets much more competitive with Willow Glen, St. Francis, Lynbrook moving down. Maybe CCS picks up another qualifying spot to state?
D4: Sacred Heart Cathedral moves in and Menlo moves to D5. D4 probably stays just as competitive.
D5: Menlo moves down and D5 gets more competitive too. Depending on how teams do at state, could pick up another qualifying spot.
How are the number of state berth per section determined?. I read there is a four year criteria, but does anyone know the actual formula
I agree with adjusting the divisions as mentioned above. This was discussed briefly at the SCVAL post-season meeting but no consensus was reached so we didn't create a proposal to take to CCS. We were told that CCS wants to keep the section meet highly competitive in all divisions even if that means we are weaker at the State level. But it does seem to be getting harder to compete against the huge SS schools. The Los Altos boys broke our school record each year for the past three years and yet went from placing 10th in 2017 to 12th in 2018 and then 16th in 2019. The faster we get, the worse we place! I realize conditions were perfect and times a little faster this year but that's still a big drop. I fear we may now lose that 3rd boys team spot in D1 next year:(
It's based on top 10 finishes over the last four years. More top 10 finishes gives you the opportunity to keep or gain more spots. Less or no top 10 finishes means you may lose spots. As long as there are at least 8 schools in a division, that section gets a minimum of two teams. This is why you have 8 teams in NCS division 1.
CCS was better in everything but D3. But there were years when D3 was just as competitive, such as when Aptos (and now Santa Cruz) were state contenders. But D3 is just weak, nothing you can do about that. But everything else is superior. There is clearly no advantage to switching divisions and I like the divisions the way they are.
Divisions are an interesting thing. On one side, size of schools matter. On another you have individuals qualifying and competing at state when school size has no relevance, as seen this year with the top 3 girls spread throughout D1, D2 & D3. You have a girl run 18:33 stay home because they are at a big school yet another individual make state over a minute slower because they go to a small private school. Makes no sense.
San Diego's Divisions and explanation
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HjSZXU1_3hfa0m3WgkOUHHrNnjO_uxWwEEx8xH90lAU/edit#gid=1699091203
http://www.cifsds.org/uploads/2/3/3/6/23368454/cifsds_sports_divisions_initial_posting_letter_2018-19.pdf
San Joaquin
http://cifsjs.org/sports/xc/2019-20info/xc_divisions_1920.pdf
The much anticipated 2019 State Meet Fantasy has been uploaded here: http://tinyurl.com/urj76zb
The annual Fantasy envisions a state meet with teams in divisions based purely on enrollment. Division placement at the Section meets is irrelevant. This is the system used by most Sections at their own level but applied to the State meet. The Clovis Invitational at Woodward Park employed the system in 2019.
Just some of the changes with this system:
Newbury Park HS moves up a division.
Loyola HS moves up a division and drops 3 places.
Ridgeview HS moves up a division and drops 4 places.
Central HS in the Central Section moves up two divisions and drops 11 places.
Lowell HS moves up 3 divisions and drops 13 places.
Agoura HS moves up 1 division, drops 5 places.
Royal: up 1, down 7.
Chico: up 1, down 8.
Moorpark: up 1, down 7
Arroyo, up 1, down 6.
Willow Glen: down 1, up 8, now on the podium
Sir Francis Drake, up 1, down 1 and off the podium
Laguna Beach up 3 and on the podium
The game has some flaws—it’s based on team times, not all divisions are the same size (24,24,24, then 23,23).
Not surprsingly, some sections place significantly better in the Fantasy version than in the Reality version.
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