2012 Cross Country,
Norcal Rankings '12
It seems like these decisions were solely based off the state meet am I correct?
This year, the committee members did seem to let State influence them alot but not entirely as is evidenced by Lawson being on the 1st team and not the 2nd team, Hanson being on the 2nd team and not the 1st team and Hurlock getting HM and not even running States. I'm sure there are others but those are a few that stuck out to me when compiling the votes. On the ladies side, Fraser got on the 1st team and Estrada was 2nd team and Maxwell got HM even with a sub-par performance at States. So "solely" based on States...? that would be an incorrect assumption.hank
This is why we need a one race Nor Cal qualifier so the best can race the best. Goltra is runner of the year? Whatever... I'm done with you people on this site, he was third maybe fourth best. Great he won a JV race. Congrats. Chucks Army recruits and poaches a runner and wins again!
Dear anonymous @1:36 p.m.:And what other criteria would you use? Certainly the championship races that lead to, and include, the state championships carry far more weight than the races that lead up to that. If that is a given, then using those races as primary considerations makes sense. If you do not agree that those are the essential comparison factors, what would you suggest? How else are we going to make an assessment?
what JV race?
How can you justify picking Matt Schumann of DLS over Trevor Reinhart of Marin Academy as Sophomore of the Year ? Reinhart was the only Soph to win a State Title. He won a NCS Title too - Schumann was 3rd Sophomore in his NCS race. Reinhart won a league title over Connor Clark a 2nd team All-Nor Cal runner. He won his Division at the Stanford Invitational. The only race he didn't win all season was when he finished 4th in the Championship Varsity race at the Crystal Springs Invitational where his time of 15:09.89 was the fastest time run by a 10th grader on the fabled course since 1975. I do see that Schumann ran 15:31.8 to finish 14th in the D1 race at State to Reinhart's win in the D5 race in 15:34.0, but does 2.1 seconds faster at State in a different race really justify Grade of the Year honors ?
state meet results make it easy to compare times, but comparisons across divisions are not as telling as they might seem. Even though everyone runs the same course on the same day, each race has a different dynamic. Competing for the win(even in a lower division) > running a fast time in a upper division race but not even finishing near the winner. Goltra's D3 win at states should not be degraded, he controlled a race instead of just following fast guys -and enough with people attacking him for transferring(he made a personal decision that clearly paid off). Even with that said, Lawson's Foot Locker races make him the best runner in the region by far. Trevor Reinhart should be first team and soph of the year, even in D5 a state championship should weigh heavily enough to make up for only 4 seconds. Other big invites, section meets, and footlocker, should enter into the selection a lot more than they obviously did.A Nor Cal championship race would be awesome.Well here I am ranting in the comments section of meaningless online rankings, haha! Have a great new year and good luck on winter training everyone!
Lawson is ranked 22 nationally and an All American, should have been runner of the year hands down
This should have been a landslide tie between Lawson and Estefanos. Goltra is 3rd, way back, and is more along the lines of Richard Ho. He led D2 at 2M, and finished with15:20. I'm not sure what you guys were seeing here. The D3 title is huge, but so was Estefanos'/Lawson's entire seasons. Goltra does not fair so well if he's trying to hang with those animals in D1 or D2 . He's not even in the race in the last straightaway. The only people who beat Estafonos convincingly were the D1 guys at State, and Lawson in SF. Lawson's Footlocker finish, and Estafanos Stanford race(15:13) on a day well over 90 degrees, are equally as big as the D3 race. When you consider Estafanos set the Toro record, and ran the fastest time at Crystal since Mark Mastalir, I'd have to give him the nod. I won't knock Goltra for the transfer, but you definitely don't earn any bonus points as far as I'm considered. What division is Los Lamos? At least here in CCS you have to wait a year, or do a good job pretending you moved to Los Gatos before you can do what's "best for the kid".
Las Lomas is D3.
Last year when Sarah Robinson dominated the last 3-4 races the Campo crowd cried foul that you had to take into consideration the entire season and not just State and FLW. Now they say it is only one race that matters... State. And the fact he finished 3 seconds ahead is a dominating win is laughable. Fact is all three athletes are fantastic runners and it would have been great to have them all healthy in one race. State was essentially a tie so the closest thing we have here is FLW. But that clearly is discounted. In my opinion a kid that can perform at FL is better prepared for the next level, but Goltra has another year how to run with the big boys. Lawson was my choice. While Estifanos runs in the year were the top races in nor cal and superior to any other runs this year I also feel State is the big show and should be weighted more. Bottom line this means nothing. Look at the runners who have not won this award and are killing it in college right now. I can think of 3-4 in the recent past that were the best, got the snub because of politics but are destroying it in college and beyond. The same way SEC schools are over ranked in football along with brand names likes Notre Dame and USC we have our favorites, and Campolindo is that now. Hope Chuck has been talking to the top ncs runners and they get a few more recruits in, it's not looking so good for Campolindo as they are in a rebuilding time.
Those interested in being on the selection committee for next year send me an email at firstname.lastname@example.org
I don't think it really makes sense to compare times in different races to say who "won" each race has its own factors, ie time of race weather splits...really only head to head is a true test of which runner is better...not overall time on one course with a few seconds meaning some one "won" when they were in different races, to me head to head is what matters
Lawson was the only male runner from Ca. to make the west squad for Footlocker Nationals. At Nationals he finished to top in the United States. He was beaten at State by a 9:05-4:10ish guy by a second. He beat Goltra head up at Foot Locker. ( Goltra was beaten in his league meet by Hanson )HOW CAN YOU GIVE THE AWARD TO GOLTRA?
Yes it looks Like Strictly State meet Only! They Never Look out what the athlete has ever done during the Season! Unfortuantly a kid gets injured or sick even though they have even beaten the other athletes that are even on 1st team during the season! So why Have a Season and lets just Run a Championship!
This year all they did was look at state. But MVP's in pros are picked from the regular season. Niners already know who is going to the pro bowl. Even NCAA has their heirs man before the bowls. But in our sport the "regular season" means nothing. I disagree with this entirely, especially in track. If a kid runs sub 15 at Woodward but doesn't nail it at state (2 days after thanksgiving which lets be honest is not conducive to fast times, I mean there is a reason why NCAA runs Nats before the holiday). But it does mean something, that is why we have dual meets. If it didn't do away with them.
I can only speak for myself but I looked at the entire season and more than once. If you are unhappy with how the teams turned out, feel free to join the voting process next year..
I sure love it when someone runs really fast in September and the beginning of October but doesn't run as well during the Championship races. Would you be happy as a coach if your athlete won Stanford but finished 50th at State? Voting should be weighted almost completely on Sections and State, all other races leading up to this is just training for the championship meets. It is why you get to pick and choose your invitationals!
Why is Vanessa Fraser on the first team? Her times really haven't been up to par with the rest of the ladies on the first team. Also, Madeleine Ankhelyi should be Sac-Joaquin Section runner of the year. She had better times at Stanford and other meets than Maggie Bell. Furthermore, her finish at Foot Locker Nationals, 23rd, was much higher than Bell's finish at Nike Nationals of 60th, even relative to the depth of the fields. Madeleine has been consistent throughout the season and through all four years of her high school career. She truly deserves some acknowledgement.
As noted things happen late in the season and its not always training related. Run fast when it counts... Are you referring to the 3 seconds Golta barely finished ahead of the other top nor cal runners? He was in D3, a lame duck division. Should he have run in D1 or D2 he would not of run and this would be a no discussion. Funny though you mention section and state but not FL. Hmmm I wonder why. I guess those meets don't really matter either? All I can say is the best player isn't always MVP. Tebow won the heisman twice and he was hardly the best. So I guess Lawson got Tebowed.
Estafanos finished 6th in D1(15:20) not 50th. He was a little dinged up too. Maybe that's not the case if he's not dominating everyone(except Lawson) ALL season, and doesn't start racing til early October. It would be one thing if Goltra ran 15:05, or even 15:10. He didn't even win his own section. Estefanos was undefeated in his. Richard Ho is better than Goltra, and couldn't even come close to Estafanos. Frazier dominated all year long. Things looked like they were pretty much on cruise control after Maxewell got sick and she got in at Stanford. Back to back State titles is not going to get 2nd team.
Oops. Wrong about the section meet. Goltra isn't my choice for runner of the year, but the State performance should win most exciting performance. We need a "Song"and "Album"of the year..
Best performance of the year = Estifanos @ Toro Park. Ran 15:02 which is unreal. Diego Estrada's home course and he "only" ran 15:20; a sub 27:30 10k runner now so you can see how legit that time is. Estifanos matched Goltra while running with a stress fracture to put it another way.
Albert and the other committee members. Thanks for all of your time and effort putting out these final XC ranking. It is not an easy task. No doubt though, it helps to keep the norcal site interesting and provide chatter among the coaches, athletes and fans (like me)unlike the prepcal track site which is totally gasping for air!
Calm down boys, these are kids. A Nor Cal / So Cal qualifier would be awesome like at JC but wouldn't resolve our issues here. The only way is to do away with divisions completely like in track or add a championship division which most coaches not in D1 are against because they feel its not fair and have no interest in racing the best of the best.
This thread is tired. I think we are on version 3.0? Anything else worth of discussing that would blow up the comment section Albert?
@NCS Fanboy: Since we're on the topic of NorCal runners, and track is around the corner... CCS/NCS/SJS/NorCal favorites for the distance events this upcoming spring?
Vanessa Fraser beat Madeleine Ankhelyi in their only head to head while running 17:12 on the Crystal Springs course. I think her credentials speak for themselves and she is a worthy 1st team selection.
Previous post! Doesn't mean nothing, Anna maxwell ran 2nd fastest in history at toro park, wins Nike per-nationals , breaks 17 at mt sac , beats Fraser head to head in dual meet on Sv course 7 days prior to championship to league championship and unfortunately she gets very sick at wrong time of the season and she is penalized and is on honorable mention, maxwell has never lost to her on track! Now I see her at Niesen on the weekends and looking recovered and strong with some other runner.
Blair Hurlock had a similar type season to Anna Maxwell in that he was spectacular early but was unable to finish his season due to an injury. He was also awarded honorable mention. I think this is a case were runners that made the 1st team were more rewarded for their complete seasons as opposed to runners being "penalized".
Maxwell is an amazing runner SCCAL Fan, but can't help but wonder if she pushed it too hard too soon. Nothing you can do about getting sick but she didn't have anywhere to improve after Toro really. It was early. And 20/20 hindsight isn't worth much but if she just cruised league or didn't run, and just ran with SLV's #2 it might have been a different story. Maybe it was a bad coaching decision maybe not. Like I said its easy to look back and want to do things differently. Maxwells regular season was great, and is what got her honorable mention. What's the point?
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