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We are in the process of selecting the All NorCal Cross Country team (Sections include NS, SJS, NCS, CCS, OAK and SF). I would love to hear your input on who belongs on this team. What we need is the following:
Boys and Girls
1st Team-7 runners
2nd Team-7 runners
3rd Team-7 runners
Honorable Mention-20 runners
Boys Runner of the Year
Girls Runner of the Year
Senior of the Year, Junior of the Year, Sophomore of the Year, Freshman of the Year.
Top 10 Freshmen Boys
Top 10 Freshmen Girls
Let's hear from everybody out there on what runners belong on the above lists. I just want to make sure we (the committee) are as accurate as possible in selecting all the runners that deserve to be at the very least nominated.
Speak now or don't complain later when the lists come out.
Personally, I think it should come down to state meet. That is the most important meet and the only meet where they all run against each other on the same course/same time of year/pretty much the same conditions. If you have a bad race that day, oh well. If you have a great race that day...that is what it is all about. Pretty easy to figure out, just look at the combined times for boys and girls and start counting down by grade, etc.
ReplyDeleteI agree that the state meet is important but that is only part of the puzzle. You have to take into account the whole season as well. You also have NXN and Footlocker for those athletes that choose to continue past the state meet.
ReplyDeleteI cast a vote for senior Lucy McCullough of Marin Academy. This past season Lucy won her 4th consecutive NCS and 2nd consecutive State Division 5 title. I don't know if her winning time at the State Meet was one of the seven fastest but check the results of the Stanford Seeded race to see how she faired against the competition from all division in the state.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I do believe state should have a part in establishing this list, I don't feel it should be the sole determining factor for selection. This is just my opinion, but I believe we need to look at the entire season.
ReplyDeleteWe can't take anything away from an athlete who has been consistent all season and has one "off" race, which is reality isn't really off, they just don't fall into those top 41 spots that would qualify them if this list was based strictly off the state meet time.
I've personally followed the boys more than I've followed the girls this season, so kids like Ben Eversole (Castro Valley), Brian De La Mora (Davis) and quite a few other boys would be out of the mix because of it. And I'm sure there were some girls who are well deserving that fit this mold as well.
Yes, it's difficult to go through each individual's race results, but many of these athletes who are deserving of a selection have run in many of the big meets this fall (i.e. Woodbridge, Clovis, Mt. Sac, etc.), so you can take a look at the common NorCal runners at those meets.
Once again, this is just one persons opinion.
To Anonymous 1:56pm ....Counting all divisions I think Lucy McCullough's time at State 18:12 makes her the 9th Nor Cal female and the 6th Senior in.
ReplyDeleteLooking at the state meet results, it looks like campolindo's Chuck Woolridge can boast the fastest returning boy and girl in northern California.
ReplyDeleteShould we consider things such as Donald Plazola's comeback with newfound strength in his home life, or how Joyce came out of absolutely nowhere in the mid season in this runner of the year award?
ReplyDeleteWhile it should count for a lot, the state meet can't mean everything... take the now famous girl, Holland Reynolds. 20:15 at state to cap off a great year that featured 18:05 at mt. sac.
ReplyDeleteI take everything into account. Sometimes it's clear cut. When it's close between 2 or more runners, then you have to dig deeper and look into earlier races or the post state meet races as well if applicable.
ReplyDeleteI am not the only voter by the way and you all have your say as well. If you feel like somebody could be overlooked because they participated in one of the smaller sections or divisions, here is your opportunity to state your case for them.
Sophomore of the year= lawson or the CCS boy. Junior is a tossup between Luis Luna, Thomas Joyce, and Kevin Bishop. Freshman of the year should definately take Aidan Goltra into account
ReplyDeleteGabe Arias needs to be looked at for frosh
ReplyDeleteFrosh of the year:
ReplyDeletefor boys, it's either Goltra or Arias. Goltra typically ran slightly faster times, but Arias also came home from Fresno with some hardware.
for girls, Sophia Hartley. Easily.
For runners of the year, or at least seniors, it would definitely have to be Dan Milechman for the boys, and Kelsey Santisteban.
ReplyDeleteDan should make a run at Footlocker, while Kelsey is in Portland right now for NXN.
Two fastest returners joyce and luna will be in the same division of the same section next year and both appear to have a shot at the state title!! Very exciting stuff
ReplyDeleteGirls Junior (and Runner) of the Year - Carrie Verdon. That's pretty easy.
ReplyDeleteBoys (Senior) Runner of the Year - Dan Milechman.
I'd like to cast a vote for a top 10 freshman - Austin Lloyd of Berkeley. Top freshman (or sophomore even) in D1 at NCS, which we all know was one of the toughest races of the day. Fourth freshman overall at the meet. The only freshman with faster times were the aforementioned Gabe Arias and Aidan Goltra and a D3 runner from Bishop O' Dowd who ran in much better conditions (and should also be a top 10 frosh boy). I don't think he would be excluded, just reminding everyone since NCS was 2 weeks ago and he wasn't at state.
Senior Milechman
ReplyDeleteJunior Luna
Soph Lawson
Frosh Arias
For Frosh runner of the year:
ReplyDeleteOn the girls side, I would say it's Hartley, no questions asked.
On the boys side, though he is an excellent runner, it would be illogical to pick Arias over Goltra. Goltra has had faster times in all three meets that they were both at:
-Castro Valley Invite: Goltra had a faster pace in the 3 mile than Arias did in the 2.1
-NCS: The weather was admittedly a problem on this one, but Goltra went on to record the fastest Frosh time ever on the Hayward course, beating freshmen times by both Jake Schmitt and Luis Luna.
-State: Same conditions and distance, Goltra was purely faster.
Yes, Arias went home with some hardware around his neck, but the section a runner's parent puts him in is beyond his control.
Goltra now owns the NCS frosh boy record at Woodward Park (16:04). No frosh boy from NCS has run faster on that course ever.
ReplyDeleteSophie Hartley is very good, don't get me wrong, but Clare Carroll of granite bay is the female frosh runner of the year. 2nd place in D1 state (vs. Hartley's 16th). Carroll was also section champ in SJS, Hartley runner up in NCS. Most other years, Hartley would be frosh of the year, but not in this case
ReplyDeleteGoltra and Arias both competed at the Footlocker west All F/S boys race this morning, and Goltra was the fastest CA freshman.
ReplyDeleteRyan Douglas was fourth in the meet in 16:51, Goltra was 6th in 16:52, Poteracke was 9th in 17:00, Blair Burlock (Tracy frosh) was 11th in 17:02. Arias was 25th in 17:35.
http://footlockercc.com/2010/results/west/Results/10.pdf
Seems like Arias is not running as well as he was mid way through the season. Blair Hurlock should get some consideration.
ReplyDeleteWell, I suppose that settles the Freshmen boys debate.
ReplyDeleteSophomore Boy of the year - John Lawson
ReplyDeleteWhy do we have to make lists, BTW? I sure hope the kids aren't reading the blogs about them. All this noise just interferes with the joy of running.
ReplyDeleteHistory of NorCal teams
ReplyDeletehttp://www.dyestatcal.com/ATHLETICS/XC/alnorcal.htm
Alright I'm going to start throwing names out there, let me know who I miss, their are bound to be loads.
ReplyDelete1. Dan Milechman from Tampalias, NCS
2. Parker? Shuh, Mountainview
3. Kyle Rae, Bellarmine CCS
4. Jack (What's his last name?), Bellarmine CCS
5. The Rest of Bellarmine somewhere in here?
6. Luis Luna, Piner, NCS
7. Jeff Bickert,College Park, NCS
8. Anthony Ortollan, College Park, NCS
9. Kyle Williams, De La Salle, NCS
10. Parker Duelle, SRV, NCS
11. Michael Johnson, De La Salle, NCS
12. Forest shaeffer, Petaluma, NCS
13. Ben Eversole, Castro Valley NCS
14. Thomas Joyce, Campolindo, NCS
15. Dylan Laucher, Campolindo, NCS
Yeah so there are a lot of holes in there, and you may have noticed I don't know much outside of NCS, so fill me in. I'm just trying to get the conversation rolling a bit here.
Kigar, Halsted, Pflasrerer, Nevins, Ruppenthal and Rushing should be in the Mix from the SJS
ReplyDeleteAidan Goltra frosh of year, no doubt. The kid is a running machine
ReplyDeleteTheir should be, like, a representative from each section who throws up that sections sort of nominees, and then they all get put together. We already have SJS and NCS above, so what about CCS and NS?
ReplyDeleteAll the sections are represented already. Hank Lawson will get all the votes and than tabulate to figure out the final team.
ReplyDeleteI asked for feedback here to help me with my own selections. I just want to make sure people have a chance to make their case for runners they know deserve to be on the All NorCal team.
Girls Freshman should go to Claire Carroll, But also Don't forget Freshman Anna Maxwell SLV, 1st at Stanford Div4 18:16, Toro 2nd ALL-Time 17:51,3rd at State Div4 17:55, Also FootLocker West 8th 18:29 She should be in the mix!
ReplyDeleteObviously alot of NCS fans out there but the CCS has arguably some very strong runners with the creditials to back up consideration. Jessie Peterson- NXN and Anna Maxwell- Footlocker finalist just two girls for starters!
ReplyDeleteWhat sections are considered Norcal?
ReplyDelete^^^
ReplyDeleteRead the first sentence.
pretty sure that arias didn't come home with any hardware
ReplyDeleteUmm- 6th place in Div V for Arias. That's hardware. 16:11. Goltra 16:04
ReplyDeleteThose that say sophia Hartley.... sure for NCS but for Norcal Girls Freshman should go to Claire Carroll, But also Don't forget Freshman Anna Maxwell SLV, 1st at Stanford Div4 18:16 both exceeded Sophia at state and footlocker!
ReplyDeletei think one of the more interesting debates should be in junior boys, between Luna and Bishop (joyce may deserve merit here, but idk enough about him to discuss at length). Does Bishop's win at Stanford D1 and his 14:50 at Mt. SAC (tops in NorCal, 11th overall) propel him past Luna's 15:05 Crystal invitational time? If you look purely at championship season, it's Luna and it's not close, seeing as Bishop had a poor couple of weeks from DAL's to FLW. But there's something to be said for beating Kigar, Schuh, Milechman, and Geiken at Mt. SAC in the biggest invitational of the year and tying Chris Brewer's time at Stanford. Take your pick, either side can be argued. But either way, NorCal has a bright future for 2011 XC on the statewide stage.
ReplyDeleteGood points above comparing Luna and Bishop. No question that based on early to mid season, Bishop was very impressive especially at Stanford and Mt. SAC.
ReplyDeleteIf you look at the entire season then Luna was the most consistent.
In comparing Luna and Joyce, yes Joyce did defeat Luna at the state meet by a second but lost to Luna at the NCS meet by 12 seconds and was in 3rd place.
Emphasis should be on performance at end of the year (sections, CIF with NXN or FL as bonus). Someone who ran well in the early/mid season shouldn't be ranked ahead of someone who ran faster at the end when it counts.
ReplyDeleteAs for Luna vs Joyce, head-to-head you have to go with Luna because he won at Roughrider too by over 30 seconds.
For what it's worth, here's Keith Conning's take on All-NorCal, based solely on time at state:
ReplyDeleteBoys:
http://theconningtower.blogspot.com/2010/12/2010-all-northern-california-boys-team_01.html
Girls:
http://theconningtower.blogspot.com/2010/12/2010-all-northern-california-girls-team_01.html
Despite her team dynamics and injury issues, Julie Nacouzi should be considered on pure talent.
ReplyDelete2nd best NCS time at Stanford (8th best of the day):
1 231 Carrie Verdon JR CAMPOLINDO 17:59
1 1209 Julie Nacouzi SR MONTGOMERY 18:00
2 228 Grace Orders SR CAMPOLINDO 18:10
13 1061 Lucy McCullough SR MARIN ACADEMY 18:20
2 195 Julia Maxwell FR BRANSON 18:30
2 215 Elaine McVay SR CALIFORNIA 18:33
4 1045 Lauren Kraus SO M. CARRILLO 19:05
27 292 Kelsey Santisteban SR CASTRO VALLEY 19:06
Amazing victory at FL West Regionals. (Beats Molly Grabill!)
Most likely a top 10 finish at FL Nationals this Saturday.
PS. I know we're considering this year only, but how about losing to Jacque Taylor by one step at D2 State last year?
Top Nor Cal Girls - 8 Girls for 7 spots (2 best races listed):
ReplyDeleteC. Carroll (State, FLW)
J. Nacouzi (FLW - no reg. season)
C. Verdon (State, FLW)
K. Santisteban (State, Mt. Sac)
J. Petersen (State, Mt. Sac)
A. Maxwell (State, FLW)
G. Orders (State, FLW)
L. McCullogh (State, Stanford(?))
My comment has nothing to do with All Norcal but since there were so many comments and what seems like alot of knowledge about Cross country I was wondering if anyone has heard of Down Under Sports they recruit kids to run in two races in Australia in the summertime representing different regions of the country. Does anyone have any experience with this? I would appreciate any response I get.
ReplyDeleteFYI ..Jessie Petersen (CCS) is an Australian.
ReplyDeleteAfter a long season of highlites..it would be a shame not to recognize the efforts of these young runners who participated in league, sections, finals, invitationals and for some Footlocker or NXN.. recognize the body of work, XC is scored as a team and run by individuals. It is not about one day of effort. Some amazing newcomers should be recognized for a body of effort.
ReplyDeleteI feel that York School's James Palaniuk should also be considered. He was ranked 2nd in state for Division V for the entire season, winning CCS by 44 secs over second place. He may not have run well at state but his entire season was very successful.
ReplyDeleteJulie Nacouzi should not get any league, section, nor cal or state awards because she did not run for her team in those races...in fact she did not run in those races at all. Therefore she was not part of that group to be considered. There are runners who don't get to be "all-league" or "all-state" simply because they didn't GET to run because they were injured. Julie CHOSE not to run for her team by not following her coaches rules for being a part of the team (no matter how you feel about those rules, they were the rules and they were spelled out for her very clearly - and she still chose not to follow them and therefore chose to run on her own this year). You would not take a super star football player or soccer player, etc and give them an award if they did not play for their school team, even if they played great in one post-season game - why would you do that for a runner?! I think she is a great runner and maybe even made the right choice (for her) in not running for her team, but she should not be considered for any of these end of year awards - except for Foot Locker West Champion and maybe Foot Locker Finals Champion! Which is awesome, but not enough to be considered in the Nor-Cal standings in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteGood comments and also many of the same ideas that the voters are looking at. Some other considerations include whether or not a particular athlete was held out of, or not fully racing at, an invitational...under their coach's direction. A lot to consider. Some will be happy and some will be sad. However, know that those that vote are at the meets, read the results and have decades of experience in the sport. Still, we are glad to see the passion of the runners and contributors to this comment string.
ReplyDeleteHey don't forget about Will Geiken of Los Gatos. He's had a really successful season this year and placed 4th at State! CCS is part of Norcal
ReplyDeleteStay tuned for an interview with Will when I get a moment tomorrow.
ReplyDeleteIn terms of importance to a team, I think Arthur Ruvalcaba of Mt. Eden can't be overlooked. Big performances through HAAL League meets and Mariner Invite, battled through injury at League Finals to secure all-league and help secure team's first league title in school history, leads the team to the first team qualification to State, and then jumps 9 people at State who beat him in the NCS Division II race the week before while PRing. If we're taking relative value and improvement into account, definitely worth noting.
ReplyDeleteI think Claire Carroll should be runner of the year. At Stanford, she was 6th in the seeded race, beating Carrie Verdon, Julie Nacouzi and Lucy McCullough. At state, Carroll was 2nd in the D1 race (4th fastest freshman), 3rd overall, just behind Verdon, and was many seconds faster than McCullough. We all know the FLW results: Nacouzi 1st; Carroll 4th; Verdon 5th. It seems that a well-rested Nacouzi, who didn't run with her HS team past Sept., had an advantage over Carroll and Verdon who ran leagues, sub-sections, sections and state down the stretch.
ReplyDeleteFWIW, Carroll and Verdon only ran head-to-head at FLW with Carroll edging Verdon at the line with both running the same time.
ReplyDeleteAt Stanford, Carroll took 6th in the seeded race in 17:56.4, while Verdon won the D3 race (at the hottest time of day) in 17:58.5.
Both won their sectionals and @ State, Verdon won the D3 title in 17:14.3, while Carroll placed 2nd in D1 in 17:23.8.
I'd give the edge to Verdon based on titles (her first lost of the year was at FLW where the goal is Top 10) and her State meet performance (1st place in D3 and leading Campo to the team title, 2nd fastest time of the day, and fastest closing mile - 5:21).
Then again you can always use their performance at FL as a tiebreaker.
Parker Shuh from Mountain View should definitely be on that list. He was the #2 Nor Cal boy out of all 5 divisions at State.
ReplyDeleteIt's been a few weeks now, are we moving forward with this ?
ReplyDeleteAll NorCal XC team will come out on Dec 22nd or 23rd. It will be posted on www.lynbrooksports.com.
ReplyDeleteCongratulations to the only two freshmen at the Footlocker Finals - both Norcal Girls!! Amazing experience for these future stars!How cool is that...both competed from league, invitationals, sections, state finals and... post season making it all the way to the National Championships - wow! what stamina and consistency! They should be runners of the Year...
ReplyDelete3rd at Nationals, no way should Nacouzi be left off his list. Runner-of-the-Year if she'd been a team player (which she chose not to be) but first team based on talent. No question.
ReplyDeleteCould someone please clarify.......to be on the Nor Cal All Team list, is it a requirement that the runner competes for their school or is it just totally based on talent? Or is it a case by case situation?
ReplyDeleteThere are no rules. We, the voters, decide. This is definitely not an easy decision.
ReplyDeleteBoys who came home with hardware from State
ReplyDeleteDII
Parker Schuh 2nd
Will Geiken 4th
DIII
Domenic D'Acquisto 2nd
Thomas Joyce 5th
Luis Luna 6th
Forrest Shaffer 10th
DIV
Daniel Milechman 1st
John Lawson 5th
Trevor Ehlenbach 7th
Ned Tannenbuam 8th
DV
Cole Williams 2nd
Nick Ratto 5th
Gabe Arias-Sheridan 6th
Benjamin Rainero-de Han 10th
Also i feel that runners on teams such as San Rafael should be given more consideration because they helped there teams place at state.
Did i miss anyone?
Sorry i missed Chris Kigar of El Camino. He finished 6th in DII.
ReplyDeleteKigar ( 15:43 ) Rushing ( 15:52 ) Halsted ( 15:53 ) go sub 16:00 in the SJS Finals at Willow Hills. This deserves serious consideration as only these are three of the top seven times ever recorded on this course.
ReplyDeleteTo say that Nacuzi would be runner of the year IF she was on her school team, but sine she wasn't she should at least get first team is not consistent. You either have to be a member of your team or not to be up for one of these awards. There shouldn't be any "well, we won't give you this award, but we will give you that award."
ReplyDeleteAnd my two cents is that she should not be up for any of the League, Nor Cal, or State awards. This is about high school running. Never before have you gone out in the non-high school "circuit" of races and found the best runner for this award, so why would you start now. The Nor-Cal awards are for runners on their high school teams. Unfortunately Nacuzi did not run for her high school team, so that means she is not up for this award. There is no doubt that she would be runner of the year and first team IF she was a part of her team this year. But she wasn't, therefore, she should not be in the consideration. And if you are going to consider her, you better spend some time looking at ALL the other Nor Cal runners who ran at any XC races across the nation and see if any one else should be on this list.
Kevin Bishop deserves to be on 2nd team at least for his early season win at Stanford D1 and 14:50 Mt. SAC(tops in NorCal and 11th overall). Woulda been CCS D1 champ if not for falling in the first 200m at Toro, seeing as his Earlybird time (won juniors race, 3rd overall) would have won the CCS D1 race
ReplyDeleteDon't forget freshman Sarah Baxter, who won her race at Mt. SAC and the D1 girls CIF State meet.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Elias Gedyon, Ammar Moussa, Nolan Petersen.
"Don't forget freshman Sarah Baxter, who won her race at Mt. SAC and the D1 girls CIF State meet.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Elias Gedyon, Ammar Moussa, Nolan Petersen."
this is for northern california, and how can you put Nolan on a list with Elias and Ammar? I don't think they've even been at the same race together before.
Aragon PAL runner. Lauren Croshaw. 2nd to Jessie Peterson in PAL Cahmpionship and 2nd to Sturges in CCS DII championships. Ran well at Stanford Invite second year in a row to be top 5 in DII.
ReplyDeleteProblem at State DII race as she was heavily congested. Was in contention with pack but faulter in second half of race with breathing difficulty.
Ashley Moffett from Casa, she won NCS Div II, even though she ran the wrong way. That has to count for something
ReplyDeleteReading through the comments, some guy named Andrew mentioned Austin Lloyd and a kid from Bishop O'Dowd as top 10 Frosh,I agree. The kid from O'Dowd's name is Andrew Melendez. Also to be considered as a top ten freshman should be Dante Hay of Maria Carillo because he is the only other frosh to have run sub 17 at NCS.
ReplyDelete