If that is the case, what other courses could be used during those rainy days? Please include your thoughts in the comment section below.
Friday, August 28, 2020
Possible cross country courses for the winter?
If that is the case, what other courses could be used during those rainy days? Please include your thoughts in the comment section below.
Pinto Lake could possibly be a decent course with some adjustments.
ReplyDeleteIs Crystal Springs ever going to be a course again?
ReplyDeleteThanks for chiming in Rob.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to the Crystal Springs course, yes, it will continue to be used in the future. The issue this year is that the projected in the winter when it will presumably rain.
Perhaps Shoreline Park in Mountain View? It is flat and a bit boring, but mostly paved trails and roads. They used to host quite a few local 5K/10K races. How about Foothill College?
ReplyDeleteCalifornia should have a one-year reprieve and let them wear spikes... at least for one year they can be like every other state. It will be wet and muddy and very unlike the dry hard surfaces they normally run on.
ReplyDeleteWe've set up a decent little course at North Monterey County High that will hold rain great. The trails are mostly hard packed rocks and dirt that shouldn't turn into pure mud. Being allowed to use it may be another story all together with how strict our schools are being currently...
ReplyDeleteOn another note, Toro park is closed indefinitely due to the fire damage in the area :(
Coach Ibarra
North Monterey County HS
I hope some actually get a cross country season. It looks like any hope for one at our school is quickly fading. Our county is in the “purple” per state guidelines and are fully restricted. Rumor has it, while they cannot say officially, our district will NOT be resuming onsite until the very earliest January, which per our AD means we will not be participating in season 1. Union leadership believes the school board is reluctant to return and we will likely be distance learning all school year. Of course it can all change tomorrow so who knows, but I’m not hearing any talk about a return any time soon.
ReplyDeleteI doubt if any "new" courses are going to be created this year. Courses I know of that can handle rain are:
ReplyDeleteBaylands (5k) but the start & finish would have to be changed
Gunn HS (2.1) can handle up to 7 schools
Lynbrook (2.1-2.6-3.1) can handle 7 schools
Fremont (2.1) can handle 7 schools
Courses that might be too muddy in the rain: Crystal, Toro, HMB, Westmoor, Stanford, Montgomery Hill, GGP and others I'm sure.
hank
Hayward is fine in the rain. They usually just put down wood chips on the dirt parts to keep people from slipping
ReplyDeleteWhat about Bedwell park and Bixbee park? How do those hold up when wet? How many teams can they accommodate?
ReplyDeleteCoyote Point Park in San Mateo hosts a couple 5k races throughout the year, could that be used?
Not intended as a "in my day I walked to school barefoot in the snow" type comment, but why are we so allergic to mud? Sheesh. Look at cross country in Europe and it's a mud-fest. CCS finals at Crystal Springs in 1983 was a stormy and muddy mess after days (weeks?) of rain but, guess what, Matt Giusto still ran 15:04 and the kids survived. Most of these other suggestions don't have a start area big enough to accommodate large races. If we're allowed to run at Crystal Springs, which is my understanding, then we should run at Crystal Springs regardless of the mud. In my view, short of knee-deep water, any of the normal courses would be just fine in the rain and mud.
ReplyDeleteThe not running in mud part comes from the people that manage the courses. It's not so much the racing on the courses but the after-effects of a thousand footsteps on the courses that are the issue. I would take running in rainy weather any day over running under warm to hot conditions.
ReplyDeleteAlbert, point taken, but Crystal Springs is a dedicated cross country course (as we all know). Sure, running in the mud there risks leaving it bumpier afterwards depending on when it dries out, but that issue has been managed for decades now and at some point it is what it is. There are old-time CCS coaches who believe that the grooming of that course over the years has made it run falsely fast when compared to the 70s and 80s. A little bumpy is fine.
ReplyDeleteYes, Crystal maintenance has been managed for decades, thanks to Bob Rush, but that era is coming to an end. One main thing Bob did to manage rain runoff on the course was cut in runoff ditches so the paths would not erode away (from 1.25mi to the end). An onslaught of runners over a muddy course would take those ditches away and who's going to go out there and put them back in place? There is also the issue of vehicles on the course. Honey Bucket comes in the morning (or the day before) and does a pump out. They then come back the day after for another one (and this is a big truck). Then there is the EMT who has to get his vehicle down to the finish. The timer has to bring in their gear and finally the meet director since they have to pack out any trash that might be left behind. In rain, Crystal can't handle it. Then all these cars leave and with it a stream of mud into the neighborhood streets (they won't like that). Then you have the week of league finals, 6 days in a row with someone racing on that course. PAL would have it the worst since they're usually the 6th day. So although you could push thru to make Crystal work in the mud, it really isn't worth it.
ReplyDeletehank
Shollenberger Park in Petaluma while flat is a mixture of dirt and pavement. Flat and fast. If we have a season, we will be using it or are planning to use it.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone actually believe for one second the residents of that neighborhood or the city of Belmont will allow large gatherings of people let alone thousands parking in front of their homes during a pandemic? No way. No way. No way.
ReplyDeleteBaylands is awful. Those dirt paths would be destroyed. Look to a place like Laguna Seca. I foubt XC will happen but if it does you better have a road course ready.
Why are the decision makers not thinking of ways of how we can make this work. Team starts...duals instead of league cluster meets, varsity only... something is better than nothing but it seems like instead it’s the old way or no way. Same goes for education, instead of using this as an opportunity to update the out dated education model we are just distance learning until we get the all clear. Then we return to the same old outdated system.
ReplyDeleteYes it won’t be “true cross country” to the purest. But would you rather have nothing?
Hank, 3-4 cars a day pulling a ton of mud onto the neighborhood streets seems unlikely. And you're saying that the entire course from 1.25 miles to the end will erode into nothingness after 7-10 days of races? Also seems unlikely. That part of the course isn't built into the side of such steep hills that it's going to disappear in a landslide. Sure, a wet course gets more rutted and difficult, but the runners will survive. The way some people are talking about this it sounds like the only appropriate courses are tracks, roads or dry, manicured trails. That's not cross country. I would also add that if there is no possibility of doing some once-per-year course maintenance by whatever entity formally takes over operation of the course with some small funding for it via usage fees and league/section contributions, then we as a cross country community probably should let the course go. It makes no sense to have a championship course that can only be run when conditions are perfect.
ReplyDeleteWe've gotten away from the intent of this thread. If you'd like more detail information about the maintenance and workings of Crystal and how it might work in the winter please call me - my# is on my site. Thanks
ReplyDeletehank
Would the local community colleges allow for "road race" type courses on their campus sites? The one year the Crystal Springs course got rained out CCS ran on the (very hilly) grounds of CSM. Could Skyline, Foothill, Mission, West Valley and/or DeAnza be used?
ReplyDeleteI doubt anyone wants this liability. Our district said we can not host anything this school year on district property. Not too many people out there doing things for the good of the sport. Everyone is afraid of being sued. Sad really.
ReplyDelete