tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31292861.post8112149515474906255..comments2024-03-27T17:43:26.504-07:00Comments on Cross Country Express: Top Cross Country programs in Northern CaliforniaAlbert Caruanahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14434646351717864405noreply@blogger.comBlogger70125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31292861.post-68435746937423665522016-08-18T11:16:11.195-07:002016-08-18T11:16:11.195-07:00The idea of an open division was proposed by the S...The idea of an open division was proposed by the SJS and LA sections (if I remember correctly). The problem was that they didn't have a plan on how to make the it work in terms of qualifying from section, how many compete in state etc.<br /><br />I know I have said this before but any bylaw changes are initiated by coaches who have to start from their own league first. Once a bylaw change is approved by a league and their ADs, it then moves forward to the section level and beyond if it involves state meet competition. It's a step by step process. <br /><br />If you as a coach want to change something about the sport (whatever it is), you have to first explain your change and have a plan that makes sense and justify the change from the current format. If you can't do that, then your proposal will not make it very far.Albert Caruanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14434646351717864405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31292861.post-25091948313763337552016-08-18T06:37:29.552-07:002016-08-18T06:37:29.552-07:00I don't know why we are discussing this here. ...I don't know why we are discussing this here. You have no say. The CIF is going to do what it wants. They will not ask us, nor will they do what is right for the sport. They will do what the most powerful influence wants, just like the CCS. There is little doubt that things are always changed, sometimes small incremental changes like the unannounced track qualifying change a few years ago, to benefit the most powerful. If the open division benefits the SS or certain coaches or officials, it will be changed without much discussion. The only way to respond is to fire the board members that vote for changes that hurt the sport.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31292861.post-18795349096022712912016-08-17T21:54:03.884-07:002016-08-17T21:54:03.884-07:00Albert,
But how would that work at the section lev...Albert,<br />But how would that work at the section level? Would there be an open division in each section? What about individuals? Don't get me wrong, I think an opt-in open division is a great idea, but it could easily lead to more "unfairness" than the current system. With that in mind, I would structure it something like this:<br /><br />- Each section continues to hold championships in their current five divisions (and can qualify teams and individuals to their section meet the same way as they do now)<br />- Teams and individuals who wish to qualify to the state open division must do the following:<br /> 1. Declare before their section championships that they wish to try for the open division<br /> 2. Qualify for state in their respective division in their section meet<br />- If a team/individual qualifies for state and has declared for the open division, then the first non-qualifying team/individual takes the vacated spot in the regular division<br />- In the case where too many teams/individuals opt in to the open division (now, I can't see this happening, but you have to have a plan for it), spots in the open division are prioritized by placing in the section meets. That is, section champions get in first, runner-ups next, etc.<br /><br />This way, teams and individuals will pretty much always know right away if they qualified for state. Also, there are no complications of having to have an open division at the section meets. This also insures that all the top teams/individuals actually do get to go to state. If you have an open division at the section meets (and it is filled with the "best" teams in the section), then the first team not to qualify would almost assuredly have qualified in their regular division. In that case, very few teams would risk missing out on state entirely by going for the open division. In addition, you don't have to add any races to the section meets (in fact, the section meets don't have to change at all).<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31292861.post-77538823977400142032016-08-17T20:06:29.245-07:002016-08-17T20:06:29.245-07:00@2:55 fair or not, the CCS did not follow the requ...@2:55 fair or not, the CCS did not follow the required procedure, and that is the point. They did what they did behind closed doors and without comment from the coaches or the leagues. Then, when there was a league proposal to unwind their deed, they moved the meeting date at the last minute so as not to take it up. Is that fair?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31292861.post-6058556423011924812016-08-17T17:32:00.421-07:002016-08-17T17:32:00.421-07:00I think an open division accomplishes several thin...I think an open division accomplishes several things. #1 is that you can have the top teams racing each other in the same race to determine the auto qualifiers to NXN as well as the potential at-large teams. It will also determine the true California champion. I think they can also have an open division and then divide the rest of the divisions by numbers that are consistent throughout the state. That would mean fair competition in every division including the open.Albert Caruanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14434646351717864405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31292861.post-40301645104117345782016-08-17T17:22:54.269-07:002016-08-17T17:22:54.269-07:00It's not about NXN. It's about having a tr...It's not about NXN. It's about having a true state champion. Every team sport has an open division. Every individual sport has no divisions. Which do you prefer? Open or no divisions?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31292861.post-41392211930997282622016-08-17T14:58:05.453-07:002016-08-17T14:58:05.453-07:00In my opinion, the CIF should do absolutely nothin...In my opinion, the CIF should do absolutely nothing to accommodate NXN. It is a for-profit venture of a corporate entity (one which many people oppose on ethical grounds). If Nike wants a better qualifying process, they can come up with one themselves and implement at their own expense.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31292861.post-18392844247561702312016-08-17T14:55:56.302-07:002016-08-17T14:55:56.302-07:00@8:10 am - The CCS Board changed the track procedu...@8:10 am - The CCS Board changed the track procedure because it wasn't fair - it made different standards for some events than others (b/c lane races can only take 8 to finals). Regarding divisions in XC, what's been reported to us is that there isn't any noise at the state level to change anything in XC, and that it's the only sport that isn't working on something. Coach Timnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31292861.post-58599922461318962692016-08-17T13:18:07.737-07:002016-08-17T13:18:07.737-07:00The top teams are forced into the open division in...The top teams are forced into the open division in EVERY team sport. If XC is a "team" sport why would this be any different? You think enrollment doesn't effect basketball, baseball, soccer, softball, etc?<br /><br />Its ok as long as you get to be the big fish in the small pond right?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31292861.post-45826911955224956062016-08-17T05:58:34.509-07:002016-08-17T05:58:34.509-07:00The open division is a fine idea if it is voluntar...The open division is a fine idea if it is voluntary and meant as a benefit or reward for the top teams, and not as a punishment for programs or leagues because of a perceived advantage.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31292861.post-1003317510808693702016-08-16T21:37:54.173-07:002016-08-16T21:37:54.173-07:00Why do top teams want to race each other? The best...Why do top teams want to race each other? The best should compete against the best. That is what this sport is all about. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31292861.post-69205400015310395802016-08-16T12:24:14.996-07:002016-08-16T12:24:14.996-07:00Why is NXN all of a sudden more important than CIF...Why is NXN all of a sudden more important than CIF? Is this anything other than a recruitment tool for Nike to get their clutches on young athletes? So will all divisions at State be on a rotating time schedule, but the open race will get the same time every year? This seems like a whole lot of trouble when we're already sending the best teams. Is there that much of an uproar over teams being able to race at different times in November in Fresno at CIF? If it's so much more important to cater to the 6-8 teams who can afford it and have the time to train to even be in this conversation then why doesn't Nike just have their own Western Region meet on the same day as CIF? They can invite the top 10 teams and individuals, pay for expenses, shower them in schwag, and see who shows up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31292861.post-3640703345071668852016-08-15T08:29:55.012-07:002016-08-15T08:29:55.012-07:00I like the idea of an open division for NXN qualif...I like the idea of an open division for NXN qualifiers, but anybody who thinks enrollment has no impact on success hasn't taken a moment to look at results from the state meet or any other big meets. If you did a power merge of top enrollments, it would look pretty similar to the regular power merge of fastest teams at the state meet. This is less prevalent on the girls side, but still holds true. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31292861.post-13333838777155937682016-08-15T08:10:18.516-07:002016-08-15T08:10:18.516-07:00The CCS changed the track qualifying procedure a f...The CCS changed the track qualifying procedure a few years ago without a league initiative and without much discussion. They recently tabled a proposal to return it back to what it was because the meeting date was changed to accommodate the CIF. Thus the entire section missed its once a year chance to undo something the CCS board did outside the normal protocol. The question remains if the CIF will do something as underhanded to change the XC qualifying/division process with very little input. My guess is it depends on who is pushing it. If it's the SS or Rich Gonzalez, look for the change to be announced later in the season when we are getting ready for state. The amount of input will be based on who benefits.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31292861.post-3097249858604439312016-08-15T07:01:19.140-07:002016-08-15T07:01:19.140-07:00Most, if not all CIF proposals, are coach initiate...Most, if not all CIF proposals, are coach initiated and need to follow a process/protocol. The same goes at the section level. From there it goes to the next level until it is either passed or denied.Albert Caruanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14434646351717864405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31292861.post-49706874886072643312016-08-15T06:53:10.150-07:002016-08-15T06:53:10.150-07:00Will the CIF do there work on this proposal in sec...Will the CIF do there work on this proposal in secret like the CCS does, or will they reach out to the coaches, leagues, and teams to understand the impacts and do what is best for the sport? My guess is that the kids come last with the CIF and that changes will just be shoved down our throats.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31292861.post-78567371963592510492016-08-15T06:51:14.753-07:002016-08-15T06:51:14.753-07:00From my understanding, two sections have proposed ...From my understanding, two sections have proposed having an open division in cross country. The problem was neither had a process which to follow to determine who, why and how teams compete in that division. The other question is would top individuals also compete in that race?<br /><br />For me, the main reason to have an open division is to determine the NXN qualifiers. With an open division, all the top teams would be able to compete against each other in the same race at the same time. Right now, you have the potential of teams competing against each other with some teams getting the advantage of racing in the morning. <br /><br />I am certain at some point, there will be an open division in Cross Country in CA but it's not going to be in the near future unless somebody really has a plan and initiates the plan from their own section level.Albert Caruanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14434646351717864405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31292861.post-42816518898690668892016-08-14T23:40:26.371-07:002016-08-14T23:40:26.371-07:00Yes teams will be forced into it.
In football 4 ...Yes teams will be forced into it. <br /><br />In football 4 WCAL teams and league champions move to the open. In all other team sports, I.e. baseball, soccer, softball it's points earned through wins and strength of schedule.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31292861.post-47695450477591422282016-08-14T21:21:42.667-07:002016-08-14T21:21:42.667-07:00If it's voluntary, only the top team would do ...If it's voluntary, only the top team would do it at the section level. Why would any team jeopardize their ability to go to state by going open instead of division? Seems nuts otherwise. Or are we saying teams will be forced to do it. If so, I am dead set against and will use every option including lawsuit to stop it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31292861.post-77049311043228054702016-08-14T21:20:44.922-07:002016-08-14T21:20:44.922-07:00I love the idea of an open race.
Top 20 teams fr...I love the idea of an open race. <br /><br />Top 20 teams from the league merge should automatically go top open division. Then qualify to state from there. Top 3 go D1. Places 4-6 go D2, 7-9 in D3, 10-12 in D4. Top 3 teams 600 enrollment or less go D5. <br /><br />All league champs should be forced to do open. Other than that you can opt out but not advance to state. Other divisions can win their title but can't go to state. <br /><br />We need the best racing the best!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31292861.post-18520612884955753002016-08-14T21:04:55.429-07:002016-08-14T21:04:55.429-07:00All the other sports opt up for open division. Why...All the other sports opt up for open division. Why wouldn't XC?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31292861.post-12584068786424224112016-08-14T19:16:13.731-07:002016-08-14T19:16:13.731-07:00We are ready. What teams in WCAL other than Bell w...We are ready. What teams in WCAL other than Bell would want this? None!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31292861.post-49316406422741622012016-08-14T16:17:09.725-07:002016-08-14T16:17:09.725-07:00My source in the state office (who I will not ment...My source in the state office (who I will not mention as it is not public yet) told me the open division will allow teams to opt in but top teams in a power merge at the section level will be required to compete in the open division. Of course the other option is to decline your state spot. <br /><br />This will help with the private school hate, most top teams from WCAL would be open like in football, basketball, baseball, etc. <br /><br />Every team sport has an open division. The hold up is that cross country is considered an individual sport. The argument is if it is an individual sport there should not be divisions (swimming, track, wrestling, golf, etc.). If it is a team sport it should have an open division like every other team sport. <br /><br />If they follow other team sports league champions and additional qualifiers from A+ leagues will compete in the open division. <br /><br />Another issue being discussed is that XC may follow football in that teams may be selected for state open division from division races at the section level. Or do they have an open division at sections and place teams not in top 3 in division races. <br /><br />Still a lot to iron out but this is happening. The best need to race the best. XC is a team sport and every team sport has an open division. This is happening so get ready. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31292861.post-7946019555326286742016-08-14T12:39:30.544-07:002016-08-14T12:39:30.544-07:00Coach Pup was at Cardinal Newman last year after a...Coach Pup was at Cardinal Newman last year after a year at Healdsburg.<br /><br />Nor sure what his current situation is though. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31292861.post-13394255036489004332016-08-14T09:36:43.357-07:002016-08-14T09:36:43.357-07:00Hello Albert, Hope everything is going well. Just ...Hello Albert, Hope everything is going well. Just a FYI: Jay Avenmarg is taking over from me at SLV as the new Head XC/Track Coach! Best of luck to you and the rest of you this fall!Rob Collinsnoreply@blogger.com