Friday, November 09, 2018

CCS and SJS Meets have both been rescheduled

Live Results for CCS: http://www.rtspt.com/events/cif/2018Meets/ccsxc/
Live Results for SJS: https://timerhub.com/get_web_index.php?page=redcaptiming.com/2018/sjsxc/

Update #4 from CCS (per meet director Bill Daskarolis)
"…due to continued poor air quality the CCS X-C Meet will be postponed to Sat, Nov 17th at Crystal Springs with the same time/race schedule..."

Update #3 for SJS
The meet has been rescheduled to the 17th of November.

Update #2 from meet director Bill Daskarolis:
tomorrow’s meet has been rescheduled for Monday, Nov 12th, with same time/race schedule, due to air quality conditions…if the poor air quality persists, the meet will  be rescheduled for Sat, Nov 17th…any change will be made on Sunday, Nov 11th by 1pm…thanks…Bill

Update #1 from the CCS office.
================
CCS Member Schools

Unfortunately, we are back in the same situation of smoke from fires impacting our upcoming games.  Our hearts go out to the families impacted by these fires up North and we wish them the best.

The CCS has no specific air quality guidelines to determine if a game will be played or not. We do monitor air quality through airnow.com which has current updates.

Let me be specific on how to handle situations moving forward regarding responsibility on whether a game should be played or not:

 3. As far as cross country, water polo, tennis and field hockey this would be determined on a site by site decision by the CCS persons at the venues.  We again would be monitoring our sites and if we have to make the decision early to reschedule we will get in touch with everyone impacted by that decision. 

 4. In the case of cross country, water polo, tennis and field hockey, we have options for a Monday meet-since it is a day off or a next Saturday meet.  We will have to check with venues and site specific personnel on their availability. 

We will keep communicating throughout the day on updates.

Duane Morgan
CCS Commissioner

76 comments:

Anonymous said...

Thanks so much for the update. Do you know if they've ever postponed this meet due to air quality concerns?

Albert Caruana said...

I can't recall this happening before. I know in the 80s, there was a meet that was postponed due to weather and then rescheduled to the College of San Mateo.

Anonymous said...

Is moving to Toro Park an option or is it just a bad there?

Anonymous said...

1984 CCS XC wasn't postponed, but it was moved that morning from Crystal to CSM due to heavy rains and a muddy course. I think that was partly a reaction to 1983 CCS XC at Crystal, which was a slippery, rainy and muddy mess. It was amazing that Matt Giusto ran 15:04 on that day, though maybe not so amazing considering he ended winning the Kinney/Foot Locker in a big surprise after only being 4th or so at West Regional!

Anonymous said...

If it is going to be a game time decision tomorrow, it is likely that they will run. The winds are supposed to change and the air quality is predicted to be much better tomorrow. Let's all hope that we can get it in so the kids who move on to state can do their training as planned.

Albert Caruana said...

Ok, you made me look.

The CCS finals was moved to CSM in 1984 but Matt Giusto was a senior in 1983. He won the Kinney Nationals that year (1983) after finished in 3rd in the West Region race.

Anonymous said...

Albert, who made you look? Everything stated in the Giusto comment was accurate ('84, and Giusto in '83) except that "4th or so" turned out to be 3rd.

Anonymous said...

That's a poor decision to postpone already. Air pollution could easily improve with shifting winds and are forecast to do so. As far as I know, all the WCAL kids will also now have to miss a day of school.

Anonymous said...

"As you probably are aware, the air quality at the Crystal Spring Cross Country Course due to the fires in Northern California has been extremely problematic since yesterday. The CCS Cross Country management team and CCS Commissioner Duane Morgan have continued to monitor the situation throughout the morning in the hope that the winds might shift and help improve the situation. Unfortunately, the air quality has not improved and it does not appear that there will be a significant improvement today. Therefore, in the best interest of our athletes and their health, it has been determined that the meet be postponed until Monday, November 12th. We will follow the same race schedule."

Anonymous said...

The CCS commissioner seems to fail to realize that all schools (i.e., the private schools) are not off on Monday...

Anonymous said...

1997 CCS meet was postponed until Tuesday. I don't recall why. Rain?

Albert Caruana said...

Since it seems that a number schools have Monday off, I would think that rescheduling the meet to Monday makes sense.

it's not perfect for everybody but a decision had to be made for the best interest of everybody.

As much as we may feel like we are being inconvenienced, this is nothing compared to the families that are directly affected by the fires. Our prayers go out to them.

Anonymous said...

I agree with 2:02. Bad call to make this soon. The wind could shift and the smoke could move out very quick. The forecast is for that very thing tomorrow. It could be worse on Monday.

Anonymous said...

@2:02. You are not looking at it from a logistical standpoint. Busses are expensive, transportation needs to be arranged and takes time to organize. King City is 3 hours away. Schools in the south is 2 hours away. You can not make a "call" at 6 am when they are already driving to the course.

@2:22. While private schools may not have it off many sports take a full day off school (i.e. golf, tennis, etc.) Additionally private schools have many days off that public schools do not. Missing one day will not hurt them, if it did they would not have all the vacation days they already do.

While many of the posters seem to only think of themselves (I live near crystal so make the call in the morning) there is so much more to it. Imagine how much complaining there is on here from many of you about holding CCS at Toro or Track at Gilroy. Then add another 1.5 hours to that. I am sorry that the CCS does not make decisions based on what is convenient for the private schools but please remember there are many other things decisions like this need to consider.

Anonymous said...

Really? Air quality didn't improve over a few hours and 20-24 hours ahead of time so postponed? What's that have to do with the air quality tomorrow? Nothing! Absent an unusually strong wind, smoke this heavy will gradually dissipate but doesn't clear in a couple of hours. That was some poor thinking and totally jumped the gun. All the runners, coaches and parents, and especially to the kids who have school on Monday, are paying for it.

Anonymous said...

The smoke conditions improving or not has NOTHING to do with containment of the fire, it has to do with the direction of the wind. It is equally likely that the wind conditions tomorrow would be as good or better than on Monday. To reschedule now means that the CCS is taking away one chance to get the race in under better (acceptable) conditions if the wind switches. It is a bad decision to preemptively remove 1 of 3 viable dates, limiting us to only 2 more chances to get the race in.

Anonymous said...

@2:45. Again, there are many factors that need to be taken into consideration beyond what "could" happen. A decision like this needs to be made 24 hours in advance minimum. This is not an all-comer meet and as pointed out earlier some are traveling nearly three hours. I might suggest a spirit of flexibility and understanding for the work that goes into hosting a sporting contest of this magnitude. I also suggest you consider the nearly 1/3 of schools and administrators who need more than a "game time decision".

Or if you'd be willing to pay for the cost incurred to our struggling public schools from canceled busses I am sure they'd be more willing to accept your donation.

Albert Caruana said...

I think the right decision was made. I am about 15 minutes from the course and if you stand outside, you wouldn't think that conditions would be so improved that they can hold the races tomorrow.

Anonymous said...

#3:02. That's a tired argument. They couldn't wait until 5pm or 8pm or 6am tomorrow? I don't believe for a second that the schools need 24 hours notice or are going to incur backbreaking expenses. Meets and games get cancelled at the last minute all the time for all kinds of reasons. It was a lazy and poorly considered decision.

Anonymous said...

Albert, that's nice, but has zero relevance to wind patterns and air pollution dissipating.

Anonymous said...

@3:02 While we all understand and appreciate the issues related to logistics and costs, the CCS acted rashly by taking away a viable date for the race. In fact, the air board's own website says the conditions will improve tomorrow. That should be the basis for making the call, not sticking your head out the window and sniffing the air. There is no evidence that the conditions will improve Monday or next Saturday. In fact, the smoke could be better on Sunday when they intend to make the next 24-hour call, only to have the conditions turn bad again on Monday. What then?

Anonymous said...

Funny set of comments about lack of CCS/SJS section planning. Obviously these commenters are right ;)

The section offices have been updating the public on an hourly basis on twitter. They were pretty confident early that it was going to keep the original dates, then as the air quality got worse they kept us updated that they were cancelling. No worries!

Anonymous said...

@3:56 You know what is going to be really funny - when the smoke is fine tomorrow, as the air people predict, but the smoke is too bad on Monday and 11/17. That is going to be a laugh riot!

Anonymous said...

@2:42pm. You lost me with King City is 3 hours away. It's closer to 2 hours than 3 hours on a Saturday, and their race is at 12:20pm. But, sure, they'd already be in the bus at 6am in order to get there 4 hours early to warm up. And your anti-private school cr** is old and tiresome. Missing a day of school for the private schools is no less important than for the public schools.

Hank said...

Can't wait till tomorrow ... to see what the weather is like. Hind sight is always 20-20.

Hank

Albert Caruana said...

Things would be a lot different if we could see the future. The meet director had to make a decision today and based on the air quality, I believe that it was the right decision.

If they chose to go forward with the meet and some athletes go down due to the conditions, what then?

Hopefully, it will good to go on Monday and we can move forward with the meet.

Anonymous said...

It’s 138 miles from King City to Crystal Springs. Not sure how fast the private school charter busses go but that’s pretty close to three hours on a school bus taking into consideration stoplights & traffic & walking up to the course. (1 hour to Salinas, 1 hour to San Jose. About 50-60 min to drop off).

How about you just drive down to King City. Air quality is good down here.

You know a bus cost a couple thousand dollars round trip. To cancel the of can be costly for the schools down here.

Anonymous said...

With all the asthma and girls that collapse on a normal day I think it would be a bad idea to race. Plus it gives Saint Francis a couple days to recover from their Sacramento trip today. Win-win.

Anonymous said...

Looks better. Teams can definitely train outside today but CCS would have probably been canceled anyway. Don’t think Monday is going to be any better. Hopefully the wind will shift to its normal phase when the high pressure system moves east. Look for the meet to be moved to 11/17 sometime tomorrow afternoon.

Albert Caruana said...

Edited the following comment taking out inappropriate language.


Looks better?!?? Meaning you can’t see any smoke?! Is that how you guys judge AQ? Too many _____ on this board. CCS made the right call. The AQ is at 175 as of 7:00am. And go ahead and get your kids outside to train right now and fill their lungs with bad air, be my guest ______. Thank you CCS for looking out for our athletes.

John said...

CCS definitely made the right call. Current particle count at Crystal Springs is 182 (see website purpleair.com). Bet the meet will be postponed again until next Saturday, 11/17.

Anonymous said...

@8:08 why so hostile? CCS made good call in hindsight but they should have waited. Our boys will run outside today and be just fine. BTW the CCS rescheduled football games for today. Seems like ball sports are fine to play in the smoke.

Anonymous said...

Ironically, if the meet were held at Toro, per the original rotation, they would be running today. Might we have to move the meet if things look bad for 11/17 or does everyone agree that running at Crystal in the smoke is still better than a clear Toro? Quick poll.

Menlo XC/Track Coach said...

How about the CCS make a decision tomorrow whether to race at Crystal or Toro on Monday? If the air isn't predicted to be better at Crystal, race at Toro. But obviously it sounds a lot easier said than done since we have to deal with Toro's debacle again...but if Toro's staff is ok with the idea, I think Toro would be fine on Monday. Just like the Soberanes fires a couple years ago when they used Toro as a base station thus the course was unavailable, now we can do the same thing for Crystal by using Toro.

Menlo XC/Track Coach said...

and another question is what if the air isn't any better on Saturday 11/17 since the Butte Co. Fires continues to grow every day? Thus more of a reason to use Toro while we can (if we can), since the smoke keeps on moving south as we speak.

Anonymous said...

@ Menlo, What "Toro debacle" are you referring to?
Schools don't want to drive to Toro. Too far.

Anonymous said...

You posted a #3 update under a CCS headline that SJS was been rescheduled for 10/17. I thought is was CCS there for a second. You may want to make a separate post Albert.

Anonymous said...

I’d rather swallow my tongue and need mouth to mouth than run CCS at Toro over Crystal.

Menlo XC/Track Coach said...

To answer to the couple of ANONYMOUS posters about having CCS at Toro instead of Crystal:

1) We are all on the same boat, what if the AQ doesn't get better at Crystal and we have no location to have a CCS championship on Saturday? Then what? We have State the following weekend...and maybe by next Saturday both locations may be unfit for racing. Then what? I'm trying to come up with options here instead of complaining. I've even emailed Steve Filios about it and he quickly responded that Monday Toro isn't possible due to Toro being a county park and staff is off on weekends, so it's too late. I even offered to go down there and help set up. Again, trying to come up with options for our section and our coaches/athletes who have worked hard all year. At Menlo HS XC, we didn't even race at Toro this year because it's a non-Toro CCS year, so again, we are on the same boat as far as not wanting to race at Toro (not ideal).

2) Toro debacle - obviously the poster isn't familiar at how much it costs now to run a meet there and the rules that the park keeps on adding to meet directors...I'm assuming, please correct me if I'm wrong Coach Gus, that this is the last year of Early Bird at Toro for the reasons above...so they are having it back on their campus to cut down on costs which Menlo will begin to go to, to support that race.

Anyways, best wishes to all athletes and coaches on Monday/Saturday (we hope it will be one of those days because later will mean a tougher way to prepare for State like we always do; but again it is what it is and we'll take care of it either way).

Anonymous said...

@3:38pm. Lol, thanks, I got a laugh out of that. I agree. For those who are now praising the CCS decision, it worked out but it was too early to decide and it just happened to work out. As a few people said earlier, it makes no sense to decide based on air quality the day before. Even if the fire gets worse, a small shift in wind direction to more west and less southwest could improve bay area air quality a lot. Then a shift back over night could put us back to where we are now. It happens all the time. 180 aqi today could be 130 aqi tomorrow at decision time then 200 aqi the morning of the races. As the person said above, what then? If it's true that for cost and logistics the decision needs to be made the day before and not the morning of, then CCS should move it to next Saturday. Also, I can't figure out this talk about moving to Toro. The air is no better in Salinas (or Monterey or Santa Cruz) than it is in San Jose or San Mateo. Are people just assuming it's "too far south" for this smoke? It's not. I did see airnow.gov showing better air in Salinas, but that was wrong and I just saw a reading of Salinas with an "unhealthy" 153 aqi.

Coach Small said...

The air was clear here in the Monterey/Salinas area until this morning. I drove in to San Jose today and it is better than what you are getting up north, but still unhealthy for racing. They canceled the Monterey Half Marathon due to air quality.


Anonymous said...

Much better today. We need a little more wind shift to make tomorrow happen. I implore the CCS to not make a decision about tomorrow until tomorrow morning. We can’t afford to cancel 1 of 2 possible dates until it is absolutely clear that it is not healthy to run. I understand the logistical issues for some schools, but just image the logistics of not running the meet at all? What then?

Anonymous said...

According to the BAAQMD map, we should run CCS in Livermore. Is there a suitable course in that area?

Anonymous said...

This is an interesting site that group sources real-time AQI readings: https://www.purpleair.com/map#10/37.3795/-122.071 I think these are all privately-owned sensors and you'll sometimes see some outliers that must be wrong, but it seems consistent with the less localized and less real-time info from the government sites. Trend is positive, so fingers are crossed.

Anonymous said...

CCS is making a decision by 1 pm today. As noted these decisions can not be made the morning of the event.

The fact that Monday night football is likely going to be moved from Levi Stadium is a good sign it will be pushed to next Saturday.

Dan said...

It would seem there are a lot of meteorologists on this thread. Nobody posted about SJS, so I will just say, as much as I blocked off the day to attend, prepared to cover the meet and have plans for next weekend, I applaud the SJS (which I don't do that frequently) for postponing the meet. I don't know what will happen next week or two weeks from now at state, but this weekend it was the best decision for the health of the athletes, which should also be the foremost concern. That some football games were not cancelled speaks more towards money taking precedent over the health of the students and spectators. It's an unfortunate situation, but in this case, I believe those making the decision are doing the best they can with the information they have. Keep in mind, people have died, have lost homes and their livelihoods, we all love cross country, but let's try to see the big picture on this one.

Anonymous said...

Will anything be said if the CCS is not canceled? What if the wind shifts again and in the morning the AQI is 200? I just want my first CCS race to be fun and in good conditions.



Anonymous said...

Is the 1pm call direct from the CCS office. Do all the coaches know that? The athletes should know so they can adjust their workout accordingly.

Anonymous said...

Guys, the Fresno air monitoring stations are registering higher readings than the peninsula right now. Don’t think your plans for state are in concrete right now.

Anonymous said...

Aside from moving the meet to 11/17 and hoping the smoke goes away, are there any other contingency plans in the works? Move to Toro or other courses that less impacted? CCS extends pretty far south. Can we run at a course closer the SLO? What happens if there is no section meet? Who runs at state? What do the bylaws say? These seem like things that should be discussed prior to Saturday.

Anonymous said...

No section meet, no state meet I’m guessing. Perhaps the top teams & individuals based on the league merge would be most fair.

My guess is it will be fine however. State meet could be moved or canceled as well.

CCS Athlete said...

What would happen if CCS can't happen this weekend? Who goes to states?

Albert Caruana said...

The meet will happen even if it doesn't take place this Saturday. I am hopeful that it will but there is a slight chance that we might have to go the following Monday or Tuesday. I don't make that decision so that is my best guess.

Anonymous said...

The time for guessing should be over. The CCS has to put out contingency plans for having the meet later in the week and asking CIF to push back the state meet, or not having the sectional meet and advancing the best teams and individuals to state based on season results. Keeping everyone in the dark and just hoping everything will be okay on Saturday adds to the anxiety, especially since the smoke isn't getting much better.

Anonymous said...

Should not be based on the season. Only the league finals is fair.

Pull the meat at Toro. That doesn’t work hold it even further south maybe Woodward Park?

Anonymous said...

Air quality was pretty good today in the southern part of the CCS. Hopefully they could try for Toro Park if they dont see conditions improving in Belmont. A lot of PCAL schools would be willing and able to chip in for preparation of the course.
Beats having to postpone any further

Anonymous said...

Get Toro ready for Saturday. Decide on Crystal or Toro on Friday morning. Run the race Saturday no matter what and get everyone ready for state. Contingency planning is not that hard if you start early enough. Unfortunately it is the 8th inning and XC has no time outs.

Anonymous said...

One problem. A certain vocal private school does not like Toro.

Anonymous said...

@8:24 “8th inning and no time outs”?

What sport you playing?

pmccrystle said...

The AQI this morning at Toro Park is 43...I support switching CCS to Toro just to make sure we can hold the meet this Saturday. While air quality can certainly change quickly and dramatically, the trend of the last few days shows a considerable and consistent difference between inland Monterey County and everywhere in Santa Clara County. If Toro were unavailable, what is the parking/trail width/etc. feasibility of Pinto Lake? Watsonville's AQI this morning was also in the 40's. Any SCCAL folks have any idea if that course could handle CCS (I've never been there.)

Anonymous said...

Patrick, that is the type of contingency planning we need to be doing right now - not on Friday or Saturday. Someone with power and connections (you and all the coaches) should get in touch with the CCS and talk them through what to do to make sure the section meet has the highest percentage of being held on Saturday.

Rob Collins said...

Patrick, The course at Pinto is to narrow for that many schools. Parking is not great for that size also. Some tight turns for a large group of teams and individuals. The max would be fine for a 10 team field but anymore than that, just to tight in a lot of areas.

Albert Caruana said...

Thanks for letting us know Rob. Appreciated!

pmccrystle said...

Steve Filios has let me know that Toro Park is not available. so now we have to hope that air quality improves in the next 72 hours!!

Chanman195 said...

This message just came through via e-mail from the CCS Office to our school:
Cross Country: at Crystal Spring Course in Belmont has had undulating AQI numbers since Friday-mostly on the unhealthy side. So if by Friday morning the numbers do not indicate there will be a potential to be in the healthier range at Belmont for Saturday, we will move the meet to Toro Park in Salinas. The unfortunate part is that Toro Park is not available for a Saturday meet. So we may be moving the meet to Sunday at Toro Park. We will make that decision on Friday morning and let you know ASAP.

Anonymous said...

If air is not acceptable on Saturday CCS will be held Sunday at Toro.

Will the catholic schools compete?

pmccrystle said...

I should have written 'not available on Saturday'

Here is the CIF rule on Sunday competitions per the bylaws--it would seem to me that in an extraordinary situation such as the Camp Fire, Sunday would be a permissible day for competition if all agreed to not practice on one day of the next week, so as to adhere to the rule against 7 straight days:

M. Sundays
In order to provide at least one (1) day of respite from involvement in interscholastic athletics each week, no
interscholastic games or practices of any kind are to be held on Sunday.
Exception: Those schools founded upon religious tenets that observe a Sabbath rest from Friday sundown until
Saturday sundown may practice or play on Sundays. These schools must register each year by August 1 for the
following year with their Section offi ce and observe a day of respite from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. No
school requesting a religious exception may participate in interscholastic participation (practice and/or games) on
seven (7) consecutive 24-hour days.
 Schools requesting an exception must provide documentation, if requested, of religious belief adhering to the
basis of the exception.
 Schools requesting an exception must provide documentation, if requested, of adherence to the rule of no
interscholastic participation (practice and/or contest) within seven (7) consecutive 24-hour days.
NOTE: Declaration of Alternate Day of Respite Form is available through your local Section offi ce.
(1) Violation of Bylaw 504.M. will result in the following sanctions:
a. Practice: For every practice conducted during the declared respite time, the violating school will
be prohibited from conducting twice as many regularly scheduled practices (2 for 1);
b. Game: A game played during the declared respite time will result in forfeiture of the game.
(2) In addition to the above sanctions, the Section may impose any of the following additional sanctions:
a. The fi nal season record will be reduced by at least one (1) win at the conclusion of the season;
b. The school will be placed on probation;
c. The team/individual will be ineligible to advance to or in Section, Regional or State
Championships;
d. Reduction of maximum number of contests allowed for the following year in that sport;
e. Repeated violation may result in suspension of membership in the CIF.
(May 2000 Federated Council/Revised May 2004 Federated Council/Revised April 2018 Federated Council)

Anonymous said...

I’m thinking chariots of fire here. How many kids can’t run Sundays? Funny though how the catholic schools threw a fit about missing school on a Monday for CCS but they can miss church?

Anonymous said...

I was just informed for SJS that a possibility of only Varsity being ran at Saturdays meet and if the meet is unable to be held then they will go off of Sub-Sections results to move onto State. I know a ton of coaches will protest that decision as many schools do not go full strength at Sub-Sections for good reason. Nothing confirmed, just passing along what I have heard so far

Anonymous said...

SJS just posted this on their website:

CROSS COUNTRY: We are hoping to have the Section cross country championships on SATURDAY, Nov. 17 at the Willow Hill course in Folsom. The air quality is forecast to be within decent ranges that morning, and we will have varsity-only races with combined divisions beginning at 9 a.m. The schedule is as follows:
9 a.m.: D1/2 boys
9:35 a.m.: D1/2 girls
10 a.m.: D3/4/5 boys
10:35 a.m.: D3/4/5 girls

If the AQI climbs above 150 (unhealthy range) before any races are run, we will not hold the races, instead using the times from our sub-section meet for teams to qualify for the state championships. If the AQI climbs above 150 during the races, all subsequent races will be called off and we will use sub-section times to qualify for the state championships.

Anonymous said...

@2:03 Catholics can go to church on Saturday too so there will be no sinning whether the race is Saturday or Sunday. There was not one coach I talked with from the WCAL that would have objected to racing Monday, even though it was not a paid holiday for them.

Anonymous said...

@2:06 - 'a ton of coaches will protest'? Who? Looking at the sub section results, all the elite schools that I can see will make it - I am talking about teams that have a decent shot at the top 10 at state. If a 4th place team cruised and may have finished 3rd and qualified if they 'ran', that is tough to accept. Maybe cruising is not the best choice anymore when you consider what has happened. And all the elite individuals will also make it. I just don't see any powerhouses not qualifying for state based on the subs. A better reason to protest is that no true section champions will be determined. Now that is a valid complaint.

Anonymous said...

RE: The SJS
If they do end up using sub-section results for state qualifiers, will they also award the winning sub-section teams with SJS section championships? Obviously, safety and the lives of people in Butte County are much more important issues to worry about -- but just curious if there has been a decision in regards to SJS section championships.

Anonymous said...

@3:36 - if no section race is run, award the section championship to each SJS team that finishes the highest at state relative to each other in each division?

Anonymous said...

You can’t be section champion without running the race. Quit making stuff up guys.

Anonymous said...

If race is canceled why not award a State Spot to the winner of subs and then the committee chooses remaining spots?

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